March 1, 2022

#287 Gavin Glozier – Transcript

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Ben Nash
Hey guys, Ben from the XY advisor crew. And today I’m pumped to be here with Gavin closer. Gavin is Principal Advisor and CEO of your wealth hub advice. And he’s also leading a community of like minded advisors through the Vinarc community. Gavin, thanks for joining us, buddy.

Gavin Glozier
Great to be here, Ben, good to see you again.

Ben Nash
Mates, it’s always a pleasure to catch up with with you. And look, I feel like I can finally you know, hold my head up high, having moved to the beaches. After all those conversations for so many years. So the event good to not be letting the team down over here. But Mate, I’m keen to I’m keen to chat a bit about how you get exposed to a lot of businesses, particularly through that Vinarc. Community. But before I dive into that, I’m keen, you’ve got a pretty chunky team and a big offshore team through that community. I feel that for you know, leaders in business and for advisors, even advisors within businesses that you realize that it’s your output ends up being the your team, you know, your team ends up being your your mini business within a business or the business itself. So I’m keen to unpack selfishly get a few tips here. Around what are some of the lessons that you’ve learned around building a great team that that performs? Well?

Gavin Glozier
Yeah, really good question, there. The challenges that we looked at when we started the community was how to be efficient, how to be scalable, how to look at solving problems that, you know, we probably hadn’t really coming bopped on right yet. But we wanted to present a lot of the structural issues and systems and processes. That kind of I think a lot of practices get really stuck and bogged down. I found that over time, working with businesses, both institutional world and now on our own through the community. There’s a lot of information that’s out there’s little solutions that you could use. But the the catalyst was always implementing that the catalyst for change was always how we implemented this and who was going to hold these business owners accountable. So when we tried to solve these solutions, we really looked at understanding pain points, repeatable tasks. And that’s off the back of that understanding what problems that we could solve more efficiently. And using outsourcing solutions to solve these problems meant that it would free up advisors to be able to be more productive and spend more time or meaningful time with their clients at the end of the day, if that meant that they could see more clients and provide a better service that everybody was happy. That then kind of brings in the conversation of how do we go and engage who we engage? What skills are we looking for, and it meant that we went basically to the Philippines where we had some experience within the past to look for skill sets that fitted the solutions that we wanted to solve. So initially, we went by looking for skill sets that solve multiple problems, which I think probably was probably our first error, having people who could solve multiple tasks meant he never got someone dedicated to a particular problem. And I think also, it meant that having general a significant that deep kind of rich education or skill set that solved a problem really, really well you kind of skirt along the surface. So the generalist model, I think, by outsourcing was something that we kind of want to move away from. So we have learned that lesson really, really early. As we kind of progressed and started hiring these specialists, we understood that we had the opportunity to scale that and bring more businesses into the equation. And I went beyond my business initially to other businesses that ran license that were joining our license. And then we expanded to businesses who want to join our community that to tap into some of these resources and infrastructure that we built. So they would then benefit from this as well. So specifically speaking, it started off with that generalist model that didn’t work particularly well. And then we went out and looked for specialists to solve those problems. And then we found more specialists to build out the team for multiple practices that that use those services. So that for me was was a really big eye opener. And I think it was more that we just worked with generalist in the past and it seemed like it was the right thing to do. But we get better long term results. Now we have people with a deeper understanding of the problems we’re looking to solve and because now we have that scale of sits around us. We can’t afford the luxury of having multiple specialists or different people in different fields to come in and kind of round out that. That whole that whole solution we’re trying to solve.

Ben Nash
Yeah, totally. I know for us that we started building out an offshore team well tried and failed a couple of times, but started Probably maybe two and a half years back getting more into it. And at the start sort of like you that we brought people in and that we were trying to get them to do you know, the new clients plus the reviews plus ongoing often, it was just breaking that brain. And I think partly because the different financial services system not used to the legislation, the process the advice, and that was one of the things that we ended up tightening up, what are the things that each team member focuses on, that allowed them to build a better understanding and better skill set in that task. And since that time, we’ve had for our longer term team there that that we’ve expanded those their roles into other areas, which is, which is working well, it’s just, I found at the start, that they were finding it overwhelming. And that wasn’t effective in terms of actually getting getting those results. Tell me you’ve got like a couple of dozen, Team offshore, what, in terms of remote teams and remote team management. And that’s something that I think has just been forced on a lot of businesses with through the COVID disruption. But what have been the things that make the biggest difference in in having a team that is remote working? Well, from your

Gavin Glozier
Yeah, we appointed dedicated HR manager last year in the Philippines. So her whole role is ensuring that welfare is taken care of. So if there are concerns, you know, there’s a dedicated point of contact previously, that was me. And that’s not sustainable. But even if you have to clients and a license, so having someone on the ground, we had someone part time there who was doing administration and some HR responsibilities. Throughout the entire time, there was never a full time dedicated resource, we’ve kind of big business background. Now we’ve got this person there, Regina is the backbone of kind of the way that the community runs there. She’s She’s fantastic. So in that, it means that we’ve got someone who can monitor that that welfare, monitor security monitor kind of hours, and we track everyone’s work from a security perspective, we track everyone’s kind of activity. And that’s important to understand if there are hiccups or delays or outages and things which do happen from time to time. And typhoon a debt came through, it gets to do particularly hard at the end of last year, saying we’re impacted. straightaway, we were doing week arounds within the community and in our advisor community to help support the people on the ground over there, you know, had about eight or nine people that were impacted, totally lost their house completely. So it was it was pretty serious. But we were able to quickly mobilize the team to support them. And I couldn’t have done that without the help of Regina. So for her being there on the ground and understanding intimately what was going on, she was able to find the right resources to help connect people to to help them out. So for me that that makes, that makes a really, really big difference, whether it’s a major event like that, or it’s the day to day running of the administrative side of the business. She’s on top of everything over there, and allows us to really focus on the important things that we need to do to run the license or run our clients in the advice business.

Ben Nash
Yeah, totally. I know for us, we use VA platinum as a BPO. And one of the things that was that was such a huge help when that typhoon is that those guys were just all over it with looking after the team making sure that there was SWI they set up like a place they could go and some people didn’t have access to food and water and stuff even. So having that layer of support. I think he is key and especially as your team grows just from the administration side that it does become challenging for onshore and offshore teams. So this yes, there is.

Gavin Glozier
It’s interesting, right? I often say this, there’s two approaches to offshoring, there’s there’s people who expect the solution to be there on the on the shelf ready to go and we can hire someone and it will solve your problem straightaway. And then you get the other who are willing to work with the team member as part of this broader team with the the feel the look and feel of kind of what it is to be working in the same offices, this person that inclusion creates loyalty, that inclusion creates longevity in their business, and you get far more out if you put in as much as you can into it. And I’ve seen many times and well i stipulate when and staff are hired need to put the time in to build the processes, you need to make sure it’s really clear and apparent for the person who’s coming in what is their role is and then how they need to execute and you need to put that time in and I’ve seen a fail too many times with people wanting to have a solution off the shelf and then open the timer and then wonder why it’s not working and then go back to hiring. You know, these tasks that can be performed by by talent offshore, yet they employ someone over here 234 times as much because they’re afraid of that change. And that’s the environment I think where businesses are struggling to remain profitable. I think this is a logical solution to help you get to scale your business and remain profitable, but it’s just I find it kind of counterintuitive if we kind of stick with that, that type of resource in Australia, where really it’s not performing any benefit to your longer term.

Ben Nash
Totally. And it’s actually challenging. Like, we’ve been hiring for people for what seems like an A engine, it’s hard to find good people, and people that are happy to do like, just general administrative type stuff. And I think yeah, definitely, for us that one of the fails when I mentioned that we tried and failed a couple of times with offshoring, initially, and both of those times it was very much like, we’re just expecting that, that that, you know, this that we use a BPO, one time went direct and other time, but that the person would just get it and do it without treating them like a team member in our, in our Sydney team. Whereas now it’s there, we’ve got an integrated team, there’s just in in different locations. And I think it’s unrealistic to expect that any team member, you know, onshore or offshore is going to work and work close to their their potential without, you know, doing all of the things that you need to do as a team performance planning, the support the interaction, virtual and all those,

Gavin Glozier
I think, yeah, the parallels gone. For me, what I explained to people is, if you had someone new joining a team, and you kept them in the doc office in the corner, and then checked in on them once a week, and didn’t understand what they were doing, who they were and what drove them. You kept them up during the whole time. Do you think you get the most out of that staff member? Because because that’s the digital equivalent of what you’re doing to the staff member? Virtually? Yeah. So you can’t expect the best outcome if you keep someone in the shoe closet? Because, you know, they’re out of sight out of mind. Simple as that. Yeah,

Ben Nash
absolutely. But it’s look, it’s easy. I think that and partly probably the just the industry that sometimes people package it as that and think that they can just buy, you know, yes, a solution without putting in the work. But unfortunately, that’s that doesn’t exist, certainly, in my experience, at least. Yeah. So look, Gavin, obviously, you get exposure for a lot of businesses. You mentioned, you’ve got like seven or so different businesses in that phenolic community and sort of sharing resources and learnings and ideas. Tell us through that. And I know that you’ve had broader exposure to advise businesses for a long time we’ve met initially through your involvement with the AFA, that we both helped out with through various committees and whatnot. What have you found over that time? Like, what makes a difference between businesses that are thriving and those that are just doing okay, are the ones that are struggling?

Gavin Glozier
Yeah. I think a lot of it is mindset. I think understanding and being intimately aware of what clients actually want, and being being close to your clients. And I think part of the first part of the conversation about understanding how to scale and looking at problems that are needed to be solved and and I suppose utilizing technology understanding that you can get a good outcome from using offshoring solutions. Understand that that mindset of growth, having a growth mindset, I think, is the first piece understanding how to scale and how to solve those problems. But also, being close to being close to those clients means that you can adapt your service proposition and you know, evolve your service proposition. As time progresses, as you get more segments or subsections of clients that you may want to grow closer to. Now, whether that’s yellow accumulators or young, middle management executives, or if it is that you find that your client base is moving to that pre retirees phase, you know, your offer needs to evolve and match and engage. One thing that we do do is on a quarterly basis, we come together with the seven practices and the four or so that sit outside and we do run quarterly summits. And we share our business metrics. We have a very open door policy for everything that we do. We have summit yesterday. And we did a lot of work on ourselves personally understanding personality profiling, how that plays into the business environment, how we conduct ourselves in the business environment, understanding how different personality traits impact the way we engage our clients in the understanding how we engage and work with the information that’s in front of us how clients want to perceive the information that’s been presented. We did a lot of work on understanding how that translates to the relationship and overall growth of our business. And then the types of questions that we would solve together. That in itself means that we have this really rich level of information that we’re sharing constantly and refining. And I think that openness to change in that growth mindset by utilizing that shared knowledge and that shared understanding of common problems means that we can adapt very quickly we can be nimble, and be able to adapt our service propositions and adapt for change and working with our clients. And I think that’s, that’s what I’ve seen across bigger businesses, you know, some of the biggest firms that are out there, they still are relatively nimble and can act quickly. or be it then lady managing a couple of billion dollars worth of management with a couple of 1000 clients, you know, those businesses still act quickly, should they need to change because they’ve got the infrastructure in place, and they’re ready and understand that things change. And they move with that and evolve accordingly.

Ben Nash
Totally, yeah. And we like I was saying to before we fly out the camera that we’ve been recruiting for senior advisors and senior associate advisors over the last little bit, and obviously, the people that you’re talking to, for those roles are people that are looking, you know, looking for the next opportunity. And the biggest frustration that I’ve noticed through those conversations, because obviously, we won’t understand why someone is looking at looking at moving on is Pete is businesses that struggled to adapt with the change. And there’s a lot of change being forced on us in the last couple of years through all the COVID you know, how we’re working, who we’re working with how we’ve adapted to growth, making sure that we’re still getting growth are still looking after clients, and yet not not struggling on that front. But it’s really those businesses that the ones that have taken the longest or the can’t budge on certain things, that it becomes a real frustration, I think, definitely when you’re younger, as well, that you feel like you’ve got a more just a naturally, you know, expectation of change. So that means that when they’re not happening when it seems like a simple thing, and sometimes it can be a simple thing, but for bigger olds, maybe not so much. Yeah, it does. It pisses a lot of people off. And I think for business owners, if you if you’re not, don’t have that flexibility, then it can be hard to keep good people and to keep a good environment as well. You know, within businesses, but yeah, we’ve done a lot of that that same personality, like personality, behavioural profiling, and I find that stuff intriguing as well. We do that with all of our new team when they come into the business. And it does drive a lot of ways that wealth dynamics profiling, it’s like how people think in, you know, understanding where you’re in flow, where you’re not in flow them also that I’ve been doing it, I got exposed to it through our business coach who we’ve been working with for about five years. And in that time, I’ve learned a lot that you it also is how you communicate with people, unlike I like bullet points and seen communication, whereas some people that they want, they need the story that sits behind it, or they can’t sort of graph and they think that the bullet points are aggressive. And, you know, obviously, it takes all types of people to create a good team. But that’s super fascinating with with that stuff, buddy. Some good insight.

Gavin Glozier
Yeah, absolutely. A couple of our advisors, they’re outliers on some of those personality traits, very dominant in particular traits, B extrovert or introvert or whatever it may be. And you know, some of those, sometimes people will want to see behind the screen and email out to the advisor to ask the client, what is the message they’re trying to send it but all the client wants is to sit down in front of you and discuss what’s going on, they don’t want to read an email because they don’t feel emotionally connected to the message. And I think that acutely aware of how people perceive information and how you need to adjust, I think is a skill in itself that I think is one says that you need to find advisors, because there’s other people who’ve seen in similar positions have of immense kind of importance in people’s lives. But you know, we certainly play a critical role in being acutely aware of how we respond to situations and how we act in certain situations, how we interpret data, and how you should be translating that is, is hugely valuable. And that’s the reason why I think it’s so important what we do. But that being said, I think advisors themselves, you know, I’ve been in the industry for 20 years this year. And, you know, I’ve seen so much change the entire duration of my 20 years. I think for a lot of advisors, you know, changes just this one constant. Now, if it’s not, at the moment, we look over the past month, things that have been happening over the past six months, things have been happening, the amount of legislative change that’s occurred. But then you go back to Royal Commission, you go back to fo for introduction, you go back to get a choice of Superfund, you get back to fsra launching the interim period while this inquiry, you start going through this change has been this change is almost normal. And the beautiful thing that we have been able to do is practices we’ve been able to be agile and nimble and change accordingly. It’s but that’s been forced upon us and we’ve liked it or not. The reality is businesses had always had the ability to change and we will always have the ability to change going forward and I think that agility means we are well placed to work with clients as then needs change as well. And I think that’s a part that, you know, we really don’t celebrate a lot is the fact that we have actually enjoyed change. But we should be wearing a badge of honor, as opposed to running away from saying we’re never going to change all the rallies we have.

Ben Nash
That’s, yeah, well, the rate of changes is increasing as well. And I think that we’ve seen some pretty significant legislative changes, which is sort of dragged advice out of the age of those conflicts and things that it really has a negative impact on the reputation of the industry. Thankfully, we seem to be close to where you know, where I don’t know that there’s going to be such drastic changes in terms of the approach because they’re ultimately working towards making sure that advice, you know, that your clients that you look after your clients that you contact your clients that you deliver what you’re supposed to deliver, and, you know, arguably that should have existed for, for some time prior prior to it actually coming in. But I don’t, and no doubt things will change around the edges. But I feel like a lot of the core stuff is there. But regardless, if there’s not another league of legends, live change for the next decade, still going to be an immense amount of change how we’re interacting with our clients, how we’re working with our teams, how we’re, what so what solutions were delivering for our clients, like what makes sense for them to be smart with their money and all of those things? So you know, I think if you if you’ve not, if you haven’t figured out how to change by now you’re going to really struggle to be part of the the future of the profession. So yeah, but definitely a skill set in itself.

Gavin Glozier
I agree, I think kind of normalizing the use of technology, I think, has been just the rate of change that took place in the last two years as people saw the inability to sit in front of a client face to face and the the speed at which clients adapted and we’re completely comfortable. After years of hearing clients don’t want to sit in front of a screen. How efficient is it sitting in front of a screen, at the same time? How draining is it sitting in front of a screen for an entire day, doing back to back meetings with clients like that it is super draining. And one thing I found is I’m I have the ability to talk to so many more people and have meaningful conversations, but it is mentally draining because you’re doing so much more to be engaged and look for those kinds of signs that clients may be displaying that you would ordinarily see and touch and feel in face to face environment, your brains working overtime, virtually trying to understand what Ben what you’re thinking, How you feeling, what’s the body language telling me in your brain weigh you out during the full day of that. So I find mentally it’s more drain. But I think it’s proven that the adoption of technology was always going to happen. It’s just been forced upon many people. And I know I’ve not had one client who said no, no, I don’t want to catch up virtually through that period. It’s they’ve been completely happy to do that. And it’s kind of exploded that theory that I weren’t able to do that when in fact you could have done it the whole time. So again, more efficiently. That’s in our practice now.

Ben Nash
Yeah, absolutely. We we we always had an element of virtual in our meetings, like we had three or four meetings in our advice process. And we always used to do one of them virtually. But we now we’re doing what I can’t even remember the last time we did a face to face meeting, although there have been a couple of clients that we came to come in in between the last two couple of lockdowns, but we’ve on boarded, you know, a bunch of clients that have got millions of dollars or eight figures of wealth, and you’d previously think, Oh, that’s a that’s like a, you know, high end client. And therefore we need to do, maybe we should sort of pull out the stops, and, you know, get them into the office, but certainly hasn’t been a barrier for us. But at the same time, I also get the Zoom fatigue thing. And I think it’s not just that it does take a little bit of extra energy to engage across zoom, it’s probably more so that when you’re back to back in meetings, on Zoom, you don’t get those micro interactions that you get with your team when you are sitting in the office, but you shoot the breeze if we’re talking about non work stuff on the way into the meeting room or you overhear someone on the phone and then you have a bit of banter around it I as much as I’m a massive introvert. And I love working like I love working from home, but I found the training to just go soon this phone call they’re doing email like it’s just bang, bang bang and it’s like humans aren’t built to work just like be on line with that all the time. So I’ve found that in this second lockdown in particular that people have come I know that I certainly came to that realization and a lot I think a lot of businesses did as well and they weren’t putting as much pressure on their teams to do that. And I think that people realize that they need to take care, you know, what’s up here and then mental well being and stuff and I think I think that’s that that’s unnecessary again talking about adapting to change the necessary skill to build To survive through this and be able to still perform and look after yourself and get what are you seeing like a in terms of trends at the moment with the with the businesses in your community? Like what’s what are the key sort of pain points or focus? Focuses focus for for those businesses?

Gavin Glozier
Yeah. Yeah, fresh from yesterday, staffing is probably the number one and looking at where we’re going to find the next layer of associate advisor to help with the evolution of the practices as as businesses grow, I think, you know, in our community, the practices that work with us, they typically younger, kind of under 40. They are growth focused, they’ve been working elsewhere, and now they’ve got their own practice. So they’re really keen to see that evolution of technology, you know, scalable growth, but the challenge comes with what point do you bring in another advisor, and I think that’s really holding a few people kind of back, I think, from the growth, they probably would want, they’ve hit the hitting that number of advisors, clients per advisor that is sustainable, but they don’t want to go too far knowing that it’s going to be overloaded before you bring in that next person to help transition relationships across. So I really see that as being an area that a lot of practices a struggle with. And I don’t think as a profession, that professional year, and that kind of that transition from university in understanding that client service role into associate advisor, Junior advisor, etc, has kind of gone really well. And I think that there is an opportunity to, to, again, band together and look to say, like what stage the pool of people that fit that profile? How do we kind of give them the exposure, so they get that quickly, quickly or quicker, so you can bring people in. I know, I know, we talked kind of again, before the session about kind of hiring, and the implication of having these huge remediation projects that are going on with the big four accounting firms. There’s a lot of people in that environment that have left the advice world, or, you know, seeing as paraplanners, or compliance people that have been drawn into these really, really big salaries. So as a result, supply and demand, we’re paying really big dollars to get people that are relatively junior and don’t have the experience to fit the price tag that they’re asking for. But the markets dictating what price is actually an offer, which is really hard. Yeah. But I think kind of as these remediation projects roll off, I think we will start to see a supply steady supply of people who fit the bill, whether they’re appropriate, I think is the the kind of big question we need to solve, will they be good to target and approach new clients or they’d be good to work and farm with existing practices on reviews and managing them? I think that’s the conundrum and kind of a double edged sword that I think we’ll be facing. But yeah, staffing, I think is the the big one, what do we do? How do we bring talent through? How do we navigate that professional year? I just don’t think there’s been enough in the in the professional in our profession yet to make that work. Yet the profitability and scalability question that comes in after you know, if we’ve got too many clients working with advisors, how do you become scalable, if you can’t get resources, and I think for certain tasks and processes in your business, you can look offshore for that. But still, I think for managing clients and utilizing an element of technology and an associate advisor, I think that’s that kind of void level in the middle. So I think we can get that that piece solved. I think profits will be stagnant for a period of time, I don’t think you’re going to be able to grow unless you increase your fees significantly, which then begs the question, why are you increasing your fees? is it costing more to service and a client’s going to swallow that pill? I’m not sure at this stage, I’m not seeing I’m seeing a lot of loyalty in our community, for clients. With a lot of attrition. We’re not seeing people leave, but we’re seeing businesses grow. But you’re going to find that growth can be stifled because we don’t have that middle layer nailed. And I think that’s important for a lot of practices at the moment.

Ben Nash
Yeah, totally. I think that there’s a lot of pressure on the bottom line with the big increases in costs, licensing technology, all of those things that, that plus salaries definitely, you know, increasing or on the flip side trying to compete with, with remediation projects and that sort of stuff. And the reality is these people people are coming in, they have these huge expectations, but some of them like the ones that are bouncing out of remediation that they they’re not used to doing advice in the way that it’s evolved over the last year or couple of years. So it’s almost like you’re starting again, and they might have experienced three or five years ago, but you know, is that really relevant?

Gavin Glozier
Yeah. Yeah. Looking backwards of what’s happened in the past and then remediating kind of frameworks from five, four and five years ago. It’s it’s not, I don’t think it’s going to be natural a natural transition, I think you’re right, there’s a lot of education that is take place where you want to be. And that’s where I think people, most people will shy away from being advisors on the front foot looking externally as opposed to, you know, kind of being more of a farmer.

Ben Nash
Yeah, but I think that one of the big things that we’ve sort of that’s clicked for us is that when you do nail it with that associate hire and like, we, you know, we’re looking to bring advisor, we’ve got an associates at the moment, but looking to bring a couple more, and it’s like, they’re there, they’re basically doing Junior, it’s like Junior advisor work, well, they’re essentially doing advisor work, it’s just that they’ve got a senior advisor that standing behind the technical stuff is an extra layer of support that it means that it’s, it’s easier for someone that’s working in an associate role three or six months, even if they’ve got the right skill set, and you know, the attributes to make it happen, that it’s a much easier transition. And for me, recruiting senior advisors that might be new advisors for 10 years, and then they’re sort of again, starting from the start when they come into the business, even if they do have active experience, because every advisor business is so different with their process and how they do what they do, and all those sorts of things. So for me, I’ve realized that it does create a solid growth pathway. And well, you know, we’re recruiting for these two senior advisors at the moment would probably be the last time we do that, because now we’re growing our own seniors that you just end up with a steady supply, which is great for for a growing business. But I think it’s that how you plan around it. And there’s different levels of you know, you’ve got, you get your team. So you’ve got lots of advisors and less support staff, it’s more profitable, because you’ve got more revenue, but then everyone’s under pressure, and then you put more support staff and you got, you know, the balance changes, and then you’ve got more costs and challenges to balance around as well. So haven’t fully cracked the code yet. But I think that finding that, you know, getting clarity on what that looks like and making sure that it works as you do grow, as opposed to like what we’ve done in in the past is more reactive. That is you it’s something that you need to nail, especially given how quickly things can change in the current. Yeah,

Gavin Glozier
I think the, I think the challenges, I think good practices will need to be more deliberate in planning for the future. And depending on what growth trajectory you’re on, you’ll need to start putting some frameworks and timing around when those hires need to take place. Because it’s taking longer to find that talent. It’s almost a chicken or the egg style conversation skews the kind of poor Cliff analogy, but it’s it’s so true that, you know, if you’re really looking at that growth phase as being the next five years, and you expect X number of clients to come through and off the back of that there’s X amount of implementation, everything else, the business needs to fatten up around to manage that, but you can’t bring some money and really trained at that point. So the revenue growth between now and that point when you need them needs to almost be sacrificed to get the training in place and to build out the team. So you pre empting, what’s going to happen so you don’t implode when new clients are coming on, and you’re falling over yourself, because you haven’t you haven’t kind of planned adequately. And that higher, as you said, you know that the issue is it’s just taking far longer to find the talent that you need. But it’s going to hit profitability in the short term. And that’s why I think instances will stagnate short term as they’re investing and getting that talent.

Ben Nash
Yeah, but you’ve got to given that the amount of inputs there, it’s more important than ever, I think that you focusing on your numbers and making sure that you’re rock solid, so that you can balance that and do it in a way that actually works for your business because you don’t be going backwards or you know, you blow up your war chest, and then it creates risk in your business as well. You know, I, I could honestly geek out all day on the HR growth stuff. And so I was saying to you before that it’s been a lot of things, but it’s been a massive, sort of building that muscle for us in the business. And it’s super, super interesting. And then you’ve got like, even with all those things in the planning that you put into it, you there’s a human element and everyone’s different and different skill sets, approaches that it’s it’s like a weird game of Tetris, but it’s an interesting one to try and crack for sure. Yeah,

Gavin Glozier
absolutely. I think I think businesses are being far more deliberate. Now. In that planning process. I think 10 years ago, you asked to practice you know, what’s your profit number older kind of advisory role and said I’ll look I made I put out X amount and that’s that’s pretty good. How much money do you know where your expenses you know, where are you pain points in the business? I think the generation that are coming through not far cute follow acutely aware of what’s actually happening in their practice, and be more deliberate about where they’re spending money and they have longer what well thought out planning processes so they understand and they can start to preempt, but that’s, that’s my experience. That’s what we’re seeing in our community. It’s different for different communities depending on the phase that they’re sitting in. But I think good practices now need to think as business owners, not as financial advisors working with clients, they’re running good practices, and they need to be very deliberate around, you know, how they’re allocating funds and where they’re going and what infrastructure they need on that journey as well.

Ben Nash
Totally. And it’s different skill sets and muscles that you need to build as well, that this is something that happens as coach talks a lot about that. It’s like, the skills that get you to being a great advisor don’t necessarily mean you’re going to be a great business owners, but you need to work at that and put people around you that can support that. But it’s an interesting, you know, interesting journey to be on for sure. Mate, look, I could honestly talk about this all day, but I won’t, I won’t break your brain too much with the HR. Thank you so much for sharing your insights, buddy. My last question for you is that if you could go back to little gap 20. You said 20 years ago, you know fresh faced and starry eyed coming into the industry? What would be your your your one big piece of advice?

Gavin Glozier
Oh, yeah, that’s that’s a, that’s a big loaded question. 20 years ago, when I started in finance, I really didn’t know an awful lot. And I think looking back now, I know, I didn’t. I know I didn’t know a lot. And I think I think probably the education piece for me kind of took a while to continue on. But I learned a lot on the job, institutional World Role satellites, which morphed into Asteron, etc. I think had I’d done more study early, I think I would have kind of broadened my horizons probably a little bit more a little a little quicker, I think of that would have kind of been the case. So I think the education piece doing as much as I could have done earlier would have definitely helped me and put me in a strong position. That being said, I’m very happy with how things are going now and the evolution of my career and how things have gone. But I think education for me, I think is definitely definitely the key I think of of learning and being more aware of what’s not just happening in our environment, but kind of globally as well. So I think it’s a, I think that different kind of different thinking kind of pays dividends and along that journey, and you get to meet a lot of different people. And it’s been very fortunate to have some great mentors and work with some really brilliant minds over the years. And in that I learned so much from them. I think being open at that stage to being a sponge put me in a good position. But I think doing more early on would have would have helped me a lot as well.

Ben Nash
Love it. I think it’s it’s all a journey and you know, the formal stuff I think supplements sometimes experiences is the best teacher, you know, with different things as well. So, mate, thank you again, so much. Really appreciate your sharing your insights.

Gavin Glozier
You know, it’s great to be on the XY podcast again.

Ben Nash
She’s got well good, mate. We’ll see you next time. Great.

Gavin Glozier
Thanks, Ben.

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