March 3, 2022

#288 Fraser Jack – Transcript

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Jess Brady
And now we have a very, very familiar voice for those of you that have been listening to the Xbox podcast for a long time, and that is no other than the Fraser Jack.

Fraser Jack
Wow. Hello, I should change my name to “no other than”.

Jess Brady
No other than the wonderful, Jack.

Fraser Jack
Great. What a lovely introduction. Thank you.

Jess Brady
Thank you so much for being here. I’m so excited to have you as my first podcast guest as we do a bit of a changing of the guards. I felt like it was absolutely essential to have you.

Fraser Jack
Well, fantastic. And the irony of all this is when I first started podcasting back in, I don’t know 2017 I think it was your My first guest on the podcast.

Jess Brady
Yeah. What a funny little circle. It’s been well, thank you. And today, I am very excited to sort of talk about what we’re doing, both in terms of the podcast, but also you more broadly. And then we’re going to wrap up with some questions about you know, Fraser, outside of x, my advisor, just praise, which I’m very delighted and excited to do. So as you know, I’m taking over the Thursday podcast. Congratulations. Thank you. I’m excited and slightly terrified, because I feel like I have very big shoes to fill. And yeah, it’s it’s nerve wracking, because, you know, people are giving up their time. And I feel like I’ve got quite a big job to make sure that I extract as much amazing insights and info to deliver to this lovely community that we have and feeling the weight of responsibility firmly on my shoulders. Yeah,

Fraser Jack
I wouldn’t say it’s too as too much responsibility. I think the community pretty much looking forward to hearing from you.

Jess Brady
So should we talk about what we’re going to do?

Fraser Jack
Yes, let’s do it. Tell tell us a little bit about because obviously, the XY podcast is has grown over the years, we’ve got Monday morning, market update, sporty by Milford we’ve got Benny Nash taking over on the Tuesday, we’re doing a little bit of deep dive content into particular topics on Wednesdays, which aren’t every Wednesday, but they come out fairly regularly, which you’ll still hear me on. And of course, now we’ve got just doing the Thursday podcast,

Jess Brady
yes. And so because now we’ve got a lot more diversity in terms of who’s delivering these podcasts, Clay sort of sent me a big task and said, do whatever you like, which I felt like was too, too broad for my brain. And so I started to thought about, you know, what, what would I like to use this platform or this opportunity to deliver? And so I’ve thought about it in a couple of different ways. We’ve obviously been through a pretty intense few years. Do we not say that though, every time every time it just sort of ratchets up. I feel like for the last 14 years that I’ve been in the industry, I think we’ve just been constantly saying that was just tells me the temperature has been rising and rising and rising. But yeah, given it’s been such an intense for years, I’ve thought about how do we live a great life. And I want to really go into it in a couple of different ways. So I want to talk about how we can look after ourselves as people, because I think we really need to and we need to put our oxygen mask on first. And sometimes we’re not good at that me included. I want to think about how can we help our clients or our members live really great lives? And then I want to talk about how can we build better businesses? And I feel like one without the other is no good. And so I want to get quite deep on really exploring what I think is going to be quite gritty conversations. Because as you might know about me phrase, I’ll go anywhere, and I’ll go deep.

Fraser Jack
Very good. And you’re absolutely right about this, this concept of it has been a crazy few years. But it’s always been a crazy few years for the last 20 odd years that have been and so and let’s just let’s just imagine that’s going to be business as usual moving for this. And so there’s this concept in this idea about focusing on, you know, living a great life, your personal self and understanding how that then works into your business life and how both you as a human being and you as a business both operate. So I think it’s it’s not it’s content that’s both relevant now, but ongoing into the future.

Jess Brady
And you know, selfishly I think why I’m doing this is because I don’t know the answer. Maybe no one knows the answer. But I have always put one at the top sort of pyramid and I don’t think it should be a pyramid because then means the others fall behind.

Fraser Jack
Yeah, absolutely. I think it’s the the Venn diagram, isn’t it, they both need to be they both need to have some sort of focus. And it’s about making sure so I think it’s a great topic. I think it’s a great idea. And I’m really looking forward to listening to the episodes.

Jess Brady
Woohoo, okay, enough about what I’m going to be doing. I am really keen to talk for you because one of the beautiful ironies is that you have been a regular voice in the XY community. But I actually think that because you are very good at extracting insights from other people. We don’t really get the opportunity to sort of ask you a lot of those questions. And so I’d love to sort of, I guess, get you to go back in time and tell us more about, you know, what, what is your story?

Fraser Jack
Yeah, thank you. So My story is, I was I was actually born and brought up in New Zealand. And so sometimes you’ll hear that through as a funny little accent that tends to come through every now and then. And a word, although I think most people in New Zealand think I’ve got an Australian accent. So I, you know, I was brought up there, but my first my first career was being a chef. So you know, being creative, I love the creativity of cooking and, and, you know, producing something and doing everything you can to and it was always, you know, the, if you’ve ever watched Master Chef, it’s all about, you know, that getting into the increase, you know, down into the detail and looking at what you can do that slightly different and amazing. And, and, of course, back then I thought it was always all about the food. And now I have a different opinion, I think it’s all about the experience that people have the client experience that goes on, it’s not necessarily just about the the, the one little part of going out to eat so. So from that, you know, natural, you know, Nash natural progression straight into being a financial adviser, of course, as you do. But that really led the way that I was a self employed chef working in all sorts of places around in Sydney doing what there was called chefs on the run at the time. And I was a contract chef, and I worked in a lot of hotels and industries, and I love, you know, that whole world of finance and in our head on my share insurances in place, and I was talking to people all the time about purchasing stocks and chairs, and, and so it was really, really easy to give financial advice as a shift. There was just, you know, in passing conversation, you could tell people what they should be doing and their savings plans and all these sorts of things. Super easy. I imagine it’s pretty easy for Uber drivers these days as well. And then yeah, so then I went back and studied and became a financial advisor, and was given an opportunity to open my own business from scratch having never worked in the profession before. And back in those days, it was here as a telephone. Here’s some beef it was before financial services reform kicked in. So it was it was the old customer information, brochures, brochures, which is that PDS that you know, today, and it was imagined it was a little bit of training on what was in them and how the policies responded and how superannuation worked and their go out, and therefore just go out and run a vent your own wheel and talk to people or ring people and have conversations. So it was a bit of a school of hard knocks, starting from zero clients and no real system.

Jess Brady
So hang on. Firstly, I didn’t know you were a chef, I feel like that is a great skill just to have in life. Are you telling me that you were crazy enough to transition from being a chef giving part time advice in the kitchen? To literally going into your own business? Presumably alone with no clients? Yeah.

Fraser Jack
And we’re talking 2001 2002

Jess Brady
You’re wild? What was that, like, tell me about those early years?

Fraser Jack
It was it was interesting. It wasn’t something I’d ever done before. So it was certainly a big, big challenge. And there was, you know, I think there was plenty of obstacles in the way but you just keep pushing through. Because, you know, you knew that the you know, you had belief in in the What advice did for people and how it worked. And so you just, that’s what you focus on the fact that you knew this thing that other people should know about it. And and so just like, you know, doing a podcast or whatever it might be, you open your mouth and you spoke about it.

Jess Brady
I’m so amazed because I thought I was completely insane. Having jumped out of sort of the BDM side of things into starting an advice business in 2017. But

Fraser Jack
don’t get me wrong, you are insane. No, no, no. You do you do have to be slightly insane and like yourself, in a way I guess.

Jess Brady
Okay, so tell me so then you built a business from nothing from scratch. And then what happened?

Fraser Jack
Yeah, but I built a business from scratch, I was working with another planner who actually passed away so he ended up purchasing that that business as well. So both starting my own and purchasing a book and put those two together and when that business for I want to say about 13 years and then I was doing a lot of work with the Association of financial advisors, I was on the board there and I was sort of got to the point where I was ready for a little bit changed my life so you know we did that wasn’t enough constant ongoing change and essentially looked at things to myself the I’m gonna sell this or exit this business and and do something slightly different. But obviously I was looking around I wanted to do something within the financial services sector itself and my passion was a really around the technology and trying to simplify technology. And you know, I felt that the advice process will miniverse about this that the advice process wasn’t as effective and efficient as it could have been when the use of technology so that was sort of where my passion lay and I sold and exited the business. And from there I went on it and worked for a worked with a licensee for 12 months and really got understand that the pains and the pains and the winds The the idea of what goes on within the licensee land and, you know, from understanding how IFR cells work and what the main purpose is and what their journey is like. And then from there I’d be I spent three years in device technology and regulate big tech and advice tech. And for the last 12 months or so I’ve just really been consulting in that space, talking to businesses about what they can do, and both goals based advice and technology and and you’re working obviously on the podcast still love podcasting. It’s not necessarily a career, running a podcast or being a host of a podcast, it’s more of a I love the saying that people do podcast that people don’t do podcasts for the money. They do it to make a difference. I think it’s that’s what most podcasters are at.

Jess Brady
This is my new career trajectory. This is it for me, what are you?

Fraser Jack
A free free podcast. Excellent. So, so there you go. So it’s, um, so that that was podcasting. And then yeah, so now, I’m working on a few interesting projects, consulting and, and got some some future ideas that I want to, I want to bring out so

Jess Brady
amazing. And what’s so interesting is, you know, normally consultants haven’t sat on all the sides and just listening to you. Having thought I knew what it was like to be an advisor now, now being one, I know that I had no idea what it was like to be an advisor. And so that breadth of knowledge is, is quite rare. Can we though, because it’s so funny, I’ve known you for so long, and I’m learning so much, which is fascinating. Can I go on? Can we go back for a sec? I want to ask you something, but it’s a bit. It’s a bit much. So you just tell me if you want to back off, and I can absolutely back off. So you bought a book from a business? Was it a business partner who died?

Fraser Jack
It was? So it was a colleague? Yeah. So somebody the same licensee that was working out of the same office.

Jess Brady
We don’t talk about this stuff enough, because it’s not nice. But we all know that in our world, sometimes we have to have pretty interesting charts. And so given that we have, let’s call it an aging advice. Population. I think we should we should talk about this, if you don’t mind. Did you guys have a succession plan? Was this always the plan? What was that like for you? I’d imagine that would have been wildly traumatic. And you would have had to comfort clients that weren’t yours at the same time as console staff and yourself. Like, what was that like phrase? Yeah, absolutely.

Fraser Jack
So when we talked about succession planning, we talked about the concept of retirement, obviously, is the first area somebody wants to retire or step back from their, their position or their role, which is great, you know, it’s a great way to do it. Because you’ve, you know, that you’ve got that continuity of, you know, the transition and the handover and all those sorts of things. And, and there’s, you know, there’s always a reason or a purpose, you know, why, why that’s happening, there could be a transition out where somebody says their purpose is to get out of the profession and not do that anymore. But then there’s also got the third area, that is when somebody’s passing away, and that can be there a transition period, because in my particular circumstances, the person I purchased the business from, got cancer, got sick and spent, you know, 12 months fighting the disease, and then and then lost his battle. So it was plenty of conversations that took place over a period of time, that would be this is what happens, etc, etc. So I mean, and then there’s the other the other end of that spectrum of your life where somebody unexpectedly passes away, and then all of a sudden, they either may or may not have a pant plan in place. And there’s no reason why it advisors can’t have that conversation upfront now, it says, look, let’s put something this, let’s just do an agreement in place that if something happens to you, or something happens to me, that you’re, you know, purchase my my business, this, this valuation methodology, so it’s not an a figure, it’s just based on, we’re going to do it as such and such times blah, whether it’s EBIT or renewal, I mean, we’re not talking about business valuation specifically in this one, but and then and then there’s the then you see succession plans in place where if you’ve got a large business, then it could well be you do shareholder buy out or whatever it might be just as have a plan in place if something unexpected happens to one of the directors. And then there’s the the next step, you can go we can actually say, You know what? Well, our advice would be to put some cover in place for this person’s as they succeed, and you have a Buy Sell agreement and all those sorts of things. Right. So, you know, it’s very good. It’s interesting, the Alpina with it with the leaky tap, you know, to say how many financial advisors out there don’t have their own succession plan in place, but yet they talk about key person succession in their business.

Jess Brady
I was literally just thinking so so when we started the business, we sat down and we did it because it’s something that I had spent a lot of time talking about when I was inside an insurance company and the voice that I was sort of styling that because business was worth nothing. We had a total of zero clients, but I was like no, we need we we need this if something really terrible happens. You know, it’s 29 Ever the optimist if something terrible happens, we need to sort this out. And yeah, we got the insurance cover and stuff in place. But I think when you’re younger, it’s just one of those conversations where you’re like, oh, yeah, I’ll do it later when there’s a trigger event. But of course, we know that that’s not always possible. So,

Fraser Jack
you know, starting a business, there’s a million other things to do, they can easily take priority.

Jess Brady
And that just really clients and you want to figure out a term sheet and a Buy Sell agreement. And like, Yes, please. Interesting. Yeah. Okay, so you had time to transition, I actually just didn’t know that. And so I just wanted to learn a bit more about that. But thank you, and I can imagine that would have been a very testing time and leadership would have been front and center a lot. So you’re working on projects, what can we expect from you over the course of 2022 and beyond?

Fraser Jack
Yeah, it’s, um, there’s, there’s a lot of exciting stuff that I’m working on. And I’ve tended to choose projects that excited me, which is a gift but leans into that, you know, what’s a great life look like theme of your podcast. And, and the first one is really around a project that I was passionate about since day dot, which is around efficiency and effectiveness in the process. And obviously, one of the bottlenecks that hold up a lot of advisors in this space is that is the concept of the statement of advice. And so I’ve been doing some work with the FPGA and ASIC on producing what was affectionately known as, video statements of advice, to replace paper statements of advice or PDF versions of of advice. And, and so which is, which sounds like a very big project, but it’s actually been a project that started off with the concept that without changing any legislation, or without changing any existing regulatory guidance, and without introducing any new software that doesn’t yet already exist in advisors lifespan, or that they actually know how to use is it possible to produce a video so i and when I say video, SOA, everybody jumps to the concept of because we’ve had 20 years of training in this, here is a, here’s a one that we’ve prepared earlier, go away and watch or read that and then come back, and we’ll have a conversation about it. And so naturally, we produce this paper document, we send it to the client, or it might be or presented to the client or work through it with the client. But this is about going no, let’s actually provide the advice live in the meeting, and just have all the information lined up. So sticking to a fairly strict agenda, let’s start with, you know, making sure you can record, we’ve got a we’ve got a slide or a piece of the agenda that says this is a statement of advice using the word 75. Because that’s a regulatory requirement. And it’s for you, JS and it’s from me, Fraser or whatever the the advice or relationship is, and this is our advice, provider, AFSL number, etc, then you go through that was okay, the recording, you know, this is where our current position is. And this is the scope, and this is the strategy we’re going to implement. And this is the products, we’re going to need to effectively make the strategy work. And these are all the fees and ways we get, you know, our biases and the way we charge and the way we get paid. And if there’s any commission on those, it’s how it works and the numbers and the percentages. And then if there’s any products being replaced, we go through that. So it’s about going through this the same advice in the same order you currently do. But instead of having it written in a document, you screenshare so you’re saying okay, here is my, you know, insert software providers page here, and I can show you and you can see, because I’m screen sharing, whether you’re in personal or an online meeting, you can see that that’s you that’s your details. That’s what you said that was your you know, health status that was this is your Superfund amounts, these are all the things that we discussed that you told me and that’s all accurate. And you can obviously do the inaccurate information warning at that time. But you can just say these things, you don’t actually have to have them written down, you just have an agenda that you’re following along and share screens, go back to the gender, go to the research, go back to the gender ghetto mud map that shows a strategy, go back to the agenda, go back, you know, like and you can just have different tabs open. And you record that conversation the same way as you’re recording our conversation right now. And that recording or record of the advice being provided? Is your is your recorded of you your record of you stating the advice to me your statement of advice,

Jess Brady
great, we need this. So we can take this so badly because how maybe about clients truly read the whole thing in its current version, how many of them actually get it and and is it documented? You know, I’ve started recording my client meetings over the last sort of 12 months for internal purposes and file loading, etc. But I think to myself, gosh, if there’s ever a dispute, surely there’s no better thing than a than a recording of the actual discussion that was had and I also just think it gives the person time to ask questions live and make sure that they understand it. So yeah, you might not be in a position where you can answer this. But when shall we expect?

Fraser Jack
I think, look, I think this is coming out. It’s a march project to be presented from the Financial Planning Association. So it’ll be on their website from about March, I can give you the exact date. But if you’re listening to this episode past March, then go back and have a look for it.

Jess Brady
I’ve been in corporate for a long time. And the great thing that we used to do is we’d give months but not years. Are you talking about March 2022?

Fraser Jack
I’m talking about March 2022. Yes,

Jess Brady
they do. That is amazing. And then obviously, it has to go through a process where FSL is decide whether they’re comfortable with it, and all of the things. Yeah, absolutely.

Fraser Jack
So. So it’s looking at the legislation, it’s looking at the the legal requirements, then there’s obviously this decision is up to AFSL. Some, some AFSL have spoken to a pretty keen on it, they understand, obviously, if he’s self licensed is, you know, compliance, lawyers and those things to get passed. But I think most of them also agree that, you know, having a recording, as you just said, of the of the file is pretty is pretty good evidence of the conversation. Plus, also, you can actually, it’s, I think it’s a great way of demonstrating understanding or informed consent. So I can say to you, yes, I’ve just explained that to you. What if you explained it back to me? In your words? How would you explain it, and then allow you to explain it back? And me to think about what you’re saying and go, Yeah, I think you’ve got it or you don’t. And that’s pretty critical for, you know, what’s what was the, the old fasea regulations, but you know, the Code of Conduct around informed consent and understanding the information not just being disclosed. And yeah, to be able to go back, and then for them to be able to have a copy of that video, to watch the full interview, you know, like, I know, you record for internal purposes. But if this is about saying, then I’m going to provide this video back to you the whole conversation, no editing, or cutting. So if you’re chatting about you know, you know, their daughter’s wedding or whatever, maybe just keep keep the conversation going about that, you know, it’s just, it’s all part of the advice process. So it’s, you know, they came in slightly longer, but, but you give that client a copy. And if they even want to go back and re listen to explaining that strategy or their products back to you, then it’s in their own words.

Jess Brady
Just do hair. Nice. So that looks good for later. Yeah, well,

Fraser Jack
let’s still think too, if you let them know they’re being recorded, they probably will do the hand nice.

Jess Brady
What a game changer for the industry. This could be that’s a phenomenal contribution phrase to how we deliver advice in Australia, both from an advisor lens, a back office lens, but a client lens. That’s amazing.

Fraser Jack
Yeah, absolutely. Oh, that’s what’s really, really proud of being able to do that work. And, you know, bring that to the front, because I do actually think it can be a game changer in the way that advice is delivered. And in both understanding piece, that efficiency piece and effectiveness piece. There was client research done along the way as part of this project. And you know, the clients have all said, you know that that’s a fantastic idea. Some people still want the written document, which is fine, you can just still say, well, we can still produce the written document, it costs us x. So we just passed that charge on it for us to get a paraplanner to create their document, it would cost blah, blah, blah, would you like us to get a copy to you, you know, otherwise, we don’t really need to have one for our file, but it’s for you. There’s there’s the there’s all sorts that can be done in that space. And I think it’s, it is a bit of a game changer. And you know, it’s certainly it’s certainly a bit of a passion project as well as a as well as a consulting project, that’s for sure.

Jess Brady
My brain is going absolutely berserk in you know, internally trying to figure out like, I’ve immediately gone to, how would we do this? How would we implement this? What would we show our members? What would we not show our members? You know, if this comes off, and licensees say yes, which as you’ve rightly said, a lot of them are very comfortable with it. I think, actually, this gives so many advice. I mean, SOA generation is my biggest pain point inside our business, both from a time perspective for me, but also, you know, just the sheer cost to produce it is making advice more and more expensive. And frankly, I produce this document that I think looks beautiful, because we’ve added in all these nice pictures to keep people awake. But I just have to take members through it. And I honestly think to myself, I’m not going to read, they’re not going to read this, I know that they’re not going to read this. So you know, I think if this does happen, anyone who’s giving advice is probably going to spend quite a bit of time reinvigorating their process to adapt. We’ve all adapted to online and we’ve we’ve been shown that our clients can adapt to online when they’re forced to as well. I think this is the perfect time to be releasing or watching something like that. So I just want to say if this comes off in the way that you’re saying it a huge thank you.

Fraser Jack
Yeah, I agree. I Like the cost thing you mentioned the costing the owner I agree with that, to me there’s like there’s a value chain in our businesses that at at one end of the chain is the shareholder on the other end of the chain is the client. And when it comes to cost, any inefficiency is either borne by the shareholder, or the client, there’s no one in the middle of the process or the or the value chain that picks up the cost except for the shareholder of the client. So I think this is gonna relieve a little bit of cost, from the advice point of view and hopefully can reduce some of the costs for the client.

Jess Brady
So exciting. Can’t wait, please keep me updated. But that’s not all you’re working on this year, you’ve got some other exciting projects that you’re up to.

Fraser Jack
No, I think those people that know me, and just understand that I’m normally work on four or five different projects at once. But the the two big ones for me this year is obviously getting the the SOA project out and you know, helping practices implemented or helping licensees get their heads around it, because there’s a massive mind, you know, mind shift that has to take place when you’ve had 20 years of conditioning. Since financial services reform came in, on this is a statement advice. This is how we do it, you know, we had the modern technology back in the day was Microsoft Word. And so that was what we we took on and we created, you know, big these big word documents. And that’s what we’ve been doing ever since. So there’s a huge mind, mindset shift that has to take place. And the other thing that I’m doing is helping advisors set their practices up to more securely look after their client data, or remember, you know, it’s a site currently called the cyber collective, and it’s coming out again, around a match 2022. And I think back to the days when we had paper files, and we used to lock those files and filing cabinets, and then you’d lock the office door. And there was a double lock between, you know, clients personal, financial and medical data, because let’s face it, if you do a personal statement, you’re holding on to both, then, which is a really sought after thing. But nowadays, we’ve got it all online. And anybody, any any hacker from around the world can basically break into our system and steal our clients confidential and private data. So the location things not a problem for them, the level of security is not really a problem for them. And I think it’s a huge risk to a lot of businesses. So just helping advisors to be able to shore up that side of their businesses, there’s never going to be a perfect solution when it comes to cyber hackers. And but but it’s certainly a whole lot of steps and as ASIC would say reasonable steps you could take to securing that that data online.

Jess Brady
Yeah, it is something that keeps me awake at night, sometimes, you know, sometimes it’s really easy to spot and then you hear stories about how sophisticated and complicated some of these sort of hacks are. And you just for me, I just worry, I just think God, it’s just one, you’re one click away, potentially from doing something that could be really detrimental not only to releasing data, but to losing trust and credibility and very scary.

Fraser Jack
Yeah, it’s an interesting thing is that one click away, it could be you or one click from either any of your staff as well. So it’s one of those scenarios that, you know, losing losing your client data is bad, because obviously most advisors are in this in this business to help people. So they’re just wanting to be, you know, helping their clients. And you’re one click away from losing that. But also, as you mentioned, the trust factor. There’s the loss of reputation, and possibly the loss of business valuation as well.

Jess Brady
Yeah, thank you. I’m quietly increasing my temperature here.

Fraser Jack
I’ll give I’ll give you the good news on the SLA. And then I’ll give you the bad I’ll say about the bad news.

Jess Brady
Yeah, we should have the other way around. Nevermind. Amazing, and we wish you all the very best they sound like really exciting projects. And as I said, they sound like things that are going to have a very big impact on our community. So a giant Thank you. Given that you’ve been doing the podcast for a while, and you have such a breadth of people that you’ve spoken to and topics and insights that you’ve covered. I sort of wanted to go quite broad and talk to you about you know, what have you seen to be the best changes or what are you seeing is like the most exciting pieces of the industry from the people that you’ve interviewed thus far.

Fraser Jack
Yeah, I think I think the big thing to me over I don’t know what we got now for nearly five years is the the evolution from just you know about providing advice to different business models, different people looking at different industries I know you guys did this when you started out you went what other what other professions or industries do in their business that and that they’re they’re game changers. So you know, things like introducing or really focusing on your member first or client experience looking at you know, the that wellness and balancing, there’s been a lot of conversations around the male stress and you know, how people are coping with stress around mental flexibility. I really enjoyed that panel because conversations. I enjoy conversations. When I speak to people I go, Oh, you actually you take that concept from this industry and you’ve implemented it Well, that really works. So any of those, to me, it’s always been around, you know, helpful hints. If it’s, if it’s all good points, like, it’s always been around what someone doing in the business, that’s just like, it’s a good point. And they’re really thought of that. And so, to me, when it comes to producing any type of content, it’s around going, you know, make it make, try and find some useful points and things that people are doing and bring that to the conversation. And always say that sometimes if there’s no point, there’s no point in the conversation, but I think, you know, stories, everybody likes hearing somebody else’s story or what they’re doing, where they’re where they’re at, there’s a lot of, I think there’s always a lot of benchmarking that goes on, if you’re siloed in a business, and you’re not really sure, then you, you know, the podcasts and those sorts of things are great for that sort of, are you doing that, too, I’ve had that same problem as it are. Well, that’s, you know, that’s great. And then the, say your UI came at, that’s a good idea. So often, some of the best parts of a podcast is not just about wins, it’s about things that didn’t go right. obstacles, overcome those sorts of things. So yeah, there’s been, there’s been plenty conversations over over many years where I’ve just gone wow, that’s really cool. That’s, you know, that’s a great way to, to, to run your business or do something that’s different. So yeah, anything that sort of slightly different, that puts the, again puts the client first anything that some that great for businesses and staff and I came up, I read a saying the other ages ago that I really loved, and that was around teamwork. And that, you know, teams are a group of people that trust each other, not people that work together. And so there’s all sorts of things that you pick up along the way that I think when you’re a host of a podcast, you actually get to see this gold all the time, because you’re constantly talking to people about it, and having those those conversations with purpose. Because often when you’re having conversations with you know, you catch up with, I’ll catch up with you will say, G’day, have, you know, chat chat, but we don’t go into the you know, those deeper points, like, you know, tell me about your history coming through or tell me about that moment in your life?

Jess Brady
It would probably be quite weird in some what interrogative if I went up to people who haven’t seen it? Well said my story.

Fraser Jack
Yeah. So. So in a podcast, you have every excuse to do so. Yeah,

Jess Brady
exactly. That’s why I’m very excited. Because, you know, I’m a nosy, curious person. It so you know, just listening to what you were saying around the wellness piece. And the idea that people are picking up great concepts from other industries and inserting them or trying to figure out how do we insert them into what they do? I just, you know, my immediate thought was, you know, how do we make space and time for this, you know, innovative thinking, and this deep learning about what other people are doing. Because often when we get busy, we’re just so focused and siloed on, you know, the work at hand. But yeah, I’m delighted to hopefully keep that momentum going and learning more, but isn’t, it’s not all rosy. And I think it would be remiss of us to not talk about some of the big challenges and some of the tough stuff that’s happening for our industry as well, you know, given that you again, have spoken to so many people, what are you noticing, sort of the main pain points, what challenges or frustrations that probably little communities facing?

Fraser Jack
Yeah, I think the big ones always been uncertainty. You know, like, we have, like, you know, there’s a lot, there’s a lot to love about what’s right about the profession. And often sometimes we tend to focus on the negative parts, because they’re pressing. But I’d say, you know, just that the idea that, you know, when, when a provision is 20 years old, and it has, has rules that have been very similar for 15 or 20 years, then there is some sort of certainty around what the future might look like. And obviously, we we’ve been through a lot of rapid change, which means, you know, we don’t quite know how it’s gonna land, we know that we know that some stuff will be right, and some stuff will be wrong and need tweaking over the years. But in the meantime, it’s it’s painful, and it hurts, and it’s inefficient, or whatever it might be. So look, I think that’s, that’s probably one of the biggest pain points is around that inefficient alzarri around, they just uncertainty of not knowing how it’s all going to turn out. And whether that’s changes in products, you know, whether that’s, you know, changes in the way to do business and additional work that you need to do and box ticking and all those sorts of things. But it’s, I guess, all of those things come back to, and you’d know this with all the research you’ve done in the past, it’s around attitude, it’s around how you approach those from a mental flexibility point of view. There’s always going to be obstacles. It’s just whether you see it as an obstacle, or whether, you know, you see it as as a way to improve and, you know, sometimes you have to, you have to vent a little bit and then you can sit back and go right, that’s right now now I can actually sit back and I’ve done my I’ve done my little bit of painting. So now I can go and work out how to get around it or move over it or build a bridge or or use it in as a positive.

Jess Brady
Hmm. I was just thinking as you were talking about that. I just want to sort of say very loudly. We’re tough, you know to work in the financial services industry today irrespective of what your role is. You’re tough, like we’ve been put through a lot. And I don’t think we often give ourselves enough credit because we’re, we’re also part time counselor and marriage consultant and all these things. And you know, sometimes we end the day and I feel quite drained. And I don’t think we spend enough time given that there’s all this regulatory complexity and economic uncertainty and all these sort of things that, you know, are thrown at us this constant barrage, you know, I think it’s important to acknowledge, irrespective of how you’re feeling, because sometimes it does not feel good. You were tough to be in this industry and to be to be able to continue to get up every day and do what you do think inherently you’ve got to have a lot of determination and tenacity and care.

Fraser Jack
Yeah, absolutely. And purpose, I think it’s, um, you know, you mentioned that you’re tough. It’s not the only role that, you know, advisors play, they’re an advisor, but they also might be, you know, a partner, or husband or wife, or a mother or father or a brother, or a sister, or whatever it might be. You got all these other roles to play. And so, so you’ve got, you’ve got things to juggle, but also, I think, you know, there are a lot of obstacles, but it’s it comes back down to that purpose driven idea that, you know, what, what are you? Why are you there, you know, you’re there to help people, you’re there because you can help people. So you know, you feel the obligation and the need and the want and the desire to do so.

Jess Brady
Or you could be the owner of a legato like me, who is constantly demanding attention and additional walks. And I hope she does not feature on future podcasts. But I suspect that she will do. So that’s probably comes to my next point, which is phrase, I’m trying to solve this very big, complex problem that is possibly unsolvable around how to live a great life. What do you think? What do you think of the key elements?

Fraser Jack
I think the key elements are having purpose, or direction. I think the key elements are understanding what your own values are. So if you know and you then can think about what are the things that you walk drive you as a human being understand what your values are, I think aligning your values with the people around you, whether that’s relationships, or whether it’s partnerships, or business or clients or whatever it might be, then that would be you know, a great start towards living a happy, healthy life. And that is very much around that values alignment. It doesn’t have to be necessarily goals alignment, or your all those sorts of things, you can still have different goals, but be aligned with values. And then a lot of the rest of it comes back down to communication, I think as well, you can it’s very, it’s very simple people that communicate a lot, it’s probably a little bit easier than those that Bala that

Jess Brady
Do you know what I’ve been grappling with lately? Besides you that just because you’re good at something doesn’t mean you like it. And if you if you are a challenge oriented person, which I am, it’s actually very conflicting to go back and think, did I really like that thing? Or, or did I like it because I was good at it. And I got praise, and I overcame the challenge. And I got accolades. for it. It’s a very confronting thought process that I’m currently grappling with. So there you go. But I think you’re right to your values piece. And we talk a lot about this every day. Like it should just drive everything it should be at our center. And yet we spend almost no time actively and importantly, sitting down and talking about it and understanding it and, and noticing where there’s conflicts both from a personal relationship perspective, but if you’ve got a business partner or you’ve, you know, you work in a team, like understanding what drives everyone so that, you know, we understand good behavior, but we also understand behavior that maybe isn’t perfect because we are a less imperfect beings.

Fraser Jack
Absolutely, absolutely.

Jess Brady
You just may. Oh no, we’ll just so I have some rapid fire questions. Yes,

Fraser Jack
let’s go. Let’s do it.

Jess Brady
I think I want to use these we might need to write them if you’re listening to this and you think that’s a terrible question change it let me know. Because this is my first one or if you think you want me to ask extra questions, I’m all about it. But because I’m trying to tackle this from a holistic perspective, I thought I would sort of fire some potentially weird ones out you so take a deep breath fight away. What do you do to look after your mental health

Fraser Jack
sleep and so so once you know like it could just be making sure that you get lots of sleep, sleep food lovely got health, bit of mental flexibility, stopping stopping and going backwards and forth a few times and looking at things from every different angle. And that’s my opinion but what could another opinion be or what could somebody else that we could they be coming from that often helps with conflict and understanding and forgiving that I have a saying that I don’t like to be the victim? So if you if you you can’t be you can’t do the blame game or you can’t. You can’t make anything anybody else’s fault. Otherwise you’re the victim. So you can’t not be the victim without taking on

Jess Brady
everything if you are the victim. The victim What did you just want someone to be saying? No, it’s okay

Fraser Jack
then. Then well, you know, then if you if you if you play that game, then You’re caught, you’re ineffective something else is causing. So the idea is if you want to take complete control in, then you just say, Oh, that was my, that was my thing like a polygon have done better, or I could have recognized that soon. Everything’s a journey. So a little bit, that little bit, a little bit of physical, a little bit of mental, but I think mental flexibility is a big part of that. And just taking the time, out of whatever you’re doing to look at things from different angles and be happy with stuff. I think happiness is one of those things that you look at great life, I think happiness is one of those things that, you know, if you’re watching too much news, or getting too many getting too deep into something, you’re not going to be happy. And there’s also that saying around happiness, that if you just you can actually be happy with what you have, rather than be happy with all the things you don’t hate or unhappy about things not not having stuff. So

Jess Brady
yeah, you know, we look at comparative comparison artists, with our clients, but there’s a bucketload of it in our industry as well. Fascinating that you answered. One of the things I didn’t expect you to answer when you said when I asked about mental health was gut health, because there’s so much research now that gut health plays a big part in mental health. Just quickly, what are you doing with gut health I need to know.

Fraser Jack
So it’s just, it’s just from a dietary point of view, I do intermittent eating and I don’t eat in the mornings, I’ll just eat in the afternoons and evenings and I’m not too you know, too serious about it all. I just tried to eat, eat things that are good for you got health and make making blood sugar and do other things. And yeah, just just I’m not saying it’s I’m not saying it’s a it’s something that I am. I’m not going to I’m not going to be an evangelist about but it’s just one thing, those little things that you just think about from time to time and make make positive decisions around it.

Jess Brady
Wow. No, I asked you. I don’t think I could fast I think I’m I’m hangry levels would be out of control. I’m not I would want to talk to me. But fascinating, fascinating, fascinating. And kombucha and the fermented stuff is really interesting as well. That’s an easy one. But if you don’t make it, which sounds like you do, you can just go and buy it. Okay, my next Rapid Fire question for you. Are you ready? Let’s do it. What is just one thing that you would tell Fraser? If you could go back in time, what would you tell young Fraser,

Fraser Jack
I would, I would say, pretty much I’m pretty happy with all the mental work that I’ve done. So but I would just say keep develop, keep developing, whether it’s study, whether it’s stuff around you mental health, whether it’s you know, all those sorts of just keep learning being inquisitive and learn.

Jess Brady
Great fun, I’m hoping you’ve got a bucket list or semi bucket list around want to know, what’s one thing that you’re yet to tick off that’s on there.

Fraser Jack
So some of the things on my bucket list have evolved around lifestyle. So you know, the work that I’m doing is evolved to be online. And so therefore, I can work anywhere in the world. So one of the things I’d like to do over my career is to be able to, you know, go to Spain for a month and still work and get to know a small country town. And you know, spend a bit of quality time and get to know locals. So whether that’s Spain, or whether it’s someplace in South America, or whether it’s Canada, or whether it’s you know, somewhere in some other part of the world, it’s just about traveling and being able to work from anywhere.

Jess Brady
mazing amazing, amazing. I look forward to knowing when you’re going because we got to do the things. Absolutely. And then my last rapid fire question to you is, do you have a book that I can put on my hit list to read as part of my fake book club, I’ve started a fake book club, which is, basically people just tell me what to read. And then I’ll just go away and attempt to read it on the ferocious reader, as I’ve been told. And I’ve got a pretty long list. But yeah, what’s one book you tell me to add?

Fraser Jack
Yeah, so So there’s probably lots here, but I’m not a ferocious reader. But I I love listening to the audio books. So to me, the probably the one. I mean, there’s a few I really enjoy the infinite game by Simon Sinek is a really, really cool one that Sam it’s all around leadership and understanding the it’s both about business, as well as personal way of living and flexibility. from a business point of view. I like things like the story brand by Donald Miller, or any any sort of marketing books by Seth Godin. So yeah, okay. I would say if it if it was one would be the infinite game.

Jess Brady
Thank you. I’m adding that to the I saw a Purple Cow skip the other day. And I thought, I thought that person’s read Simon cynics book, and just thought, you know what, I’m making a skip business out of that, which I found hilarious. I’m just sort of rounding out today’s conversation, I want to say on behalf of the community who listen to your Thursday, so lots a giant thank you for all of the insights that you have poured into our ears and therefore our brains, and no doubt has created capacity and change and insight and innovation in people’s businesses. Glen, my business partner gets very grumpy and sort of is hesitant for me to listen to your podcasts regularly because I come out with 7000 things that I want to change He’s like add it to the list and want to add it to this I want to just do it, which poor man has to then cope with. But I do want to say giant Thank you. We’re very excited for you to be rolling out through your special edition special features component of x by way you get really deep in niche on a broad range of topics depending on sort of what comes up. No doubt you’re going to be an amazing investigative podcaster. And I want to say thank you for me personally for being my first podcast guest.

Fraser Jack
You’re very welcome. It was absolute pleasure. Thanks to you. Thanks, Jess.

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