November 4, 2022

AdviceTech Podcast #11 – iFactFind – Transcript

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Peita Diamantidis
Hello, and welcome to the XY advice tech Podcast. I’m Peita Diamantidis. And joining me here today to deep dive into the AI effect find software is a university lecturer, a fellow financial adviser, a Doctor of Business Administration, financial planning and services and a tech development survivor which is completely impressive. Thank you so much for joining me on the show. Paul Moran it’s quite a bit not at all suddenly I’m feeling particularly undereducated.

Dr. Paul Moran
Now look, I’m just I just It’s my hobby. So I keep I just keep going with it. I finished it now but that’s great.

Peita Diamantidis
Oh, well, look, I think I actually I know that you’re our first doctorate on the podcast. So welcome. We’ll all be smarter for the episode, which is fantastic. So look, I’m really keen to dive into ifec Fine. But first, let’s just take a moment to get to know you through your use of technology. Now tell me what’s your most used emoji? Do you even use emojis?

Dr. Paul Moran
You know what, I’m a huge ellipsis user. You know, really three dots is in almost everything I say. And he’s got three dots in it. So rather than emoji there’s always the eye wink emoji but but really the ellipsis is not really an emoji, but it’s a thing that goes into almost everything I’d say. Yeah, so I can’t get in corrected by you know, Grammarly, but I overcome that. So

Peita Diamantidis
you know what, it’s something I use a lot too. I’ve just realized that something that just feels necessary. There’s a pause required. Right, right. Yep. Love it. Now, if you had to delete all but three apps off your smartphone, which ones would you keep?

Dr. Paul Moran
Right? Well, I keep LinkedIn. I’m pretty active on LinkedIn. So I like LinkedIn a lot. I’ll keep Google because it’s the obvious one to have. And I like what three words what, what three words isn’t app that emergency services can use to identify any person in the world within 10 square meters by using three words that the app generates. So it plugs into each other. So any any there’s a combination three words that will locate you on the planet within 10 square meters. So I just find that fascinating. In a previous life, I was navels paramedic for about a decade, back in the 80s and early 90s. And so I understand the importance of Alva locate yourself and know where you are. Yes, I think it’s a I think it’s terrific app.

Peita Diamantidis
Oh, that’s fantastic. All you have to go away and check that out too. I love it. I love it. Well, let’s dive in to ifec Fine, shall we? So let’s go a bit broad helped me get a sense of where it sits in the advice tech space. What category does it sort of generally fall under?

Dr. Paul Moran
It’s a it’s a fact finder, right? That’s what we named artifact phonics, everyone knows exactly what it is we we started this development program about four and a half years ago. Okay, it struck us you know, we were looking at tech you know, broadly what do we need to do and doing a build ourselves and we kind of realized pretty early on that everything we do everything we do is based on client information and yet the majority of advisors still hand clients piece of paper and say fill it in. So we spent all this money on tech client never sit they think we’re think we’re binary and so so it sits in the in the space as a very comprehensive digital backfired. We’re not we’re not trying to place it as, give us three answer three questions. We’ll give you a product, it’s around a permanently live tool that clients can update on, on as they go basis and advisors can update his information revealed itself. We know when our clients information reveals itself over time, give you all the information in one hit. Alright, so if you’re paid base back for a static page, find that information has to go somewhere else. You don’t find it goes into a file node or in your head or someone that so we want to document process that was permanent, and live all the time. Okay, we were bold, bold in pretty early on filling coverages scoping programs scoping tool, as well and goal setting. So I’d sit in that the first few minutes with the clients. Yeah. And then the review process gets updated from time. So consequential review.

Peita Diamantidis
Okay, so what was the trigger, though? So what caused you to go I really need to build a digital find, like, there must have been something that made you do it

Dr. Paul Moran
right, it was it was starting off by saying we want to build an x plane. And realizing how am I and realizing after about six months, that was the stupidest idea we could ever possibly have. But that really led us to this idea that But hang on, how do we get the client to get into the into x plan, right, or wherever they are, whatever habit of using at the time, and that is that is like I get a paper based form filled out, half filled out 25% filled out, I spend time getting the rest of it, then I physically transfer and manually put the information in. So we’re on to something that was more interactive. Certainly, the lock downs were Melbourne based. And the lock downs in Melbourne, you know, will capital lock downs, really casual side, because it’s really usable in a zoom or a Skype or a team’s meeting, because the data is updated as you go. So advisors and clients can be logged in at the same time, seeing what’s being updated, and so fantastic work through and get that that flushed out information much easier.

Peita Diamantidis
Okay. And so in terms of the so clearly the primary user or the initial focus was the advisor. Right? So the person interacting with the client, I’m betting No, there’s some secondary users there. Right that I mean,

Dr. Paul Moran
we’ve built this from day one, to be interactive with clients and advice. So we built a client portal when we built our fact one at the start. Yeah, so it’s designed for the client, actually, for the class login, it’s filled out the advisors obviously initiated the advice of a client, although we’re moving towards having that done automatically. But but but the clients are created by the by the adviser and then they send the fax line to them, or they send the manufac finds the first step and then before the meeting, and then after meeting then the the more detailed part.

Peita Diamantidis
Okay, and how are you finding in terms of the way teams are using it? Well, let’s talk licensee so it is something you’re finding whole licensees are taking on or it wasn’t more, you know, practice by practice that people take on the tool.

Dr. Paul Moran
I mean, licensees without without trying to beg the licensees. There’s certain areas in the license group starting with the word compliance that are very averse to wanting to try new technology. Yeah. Because they they are so bogged down with what they do that they think anything new is too difficult. Yeah. So we get it from the ground up. It’s more it’s more organic with where advisors within within the licensee, so I want to use this. And it works backwards. We have having said that, there are certainly some some progressive licensees out there who have approached us and said we want to use it. And talk to us about it, and how can we maybe get to work for us specifically? Yeah, okay. So it’s, it is, it is pretty organic, I’d say.

Peita Diamantidis
And that’s, I’m starting to see that in the interviews we’re doing is that sort of things fall into two camps. It’s either sort of an automatic yes type of tool, because it’s been around a long time or as you know, that sort of thing. Or it requires the practice or the even the individual advisor to give it a world to test it to get comfortable with it, and then pitch it if they need to,

Dr. Paul Moran
in the licensees who love it, and want to and want everyone to use it, which is great for us. And then we just got to try and backfill, you go through the through the appropriate channels to get them to sign off on it. And as I say, there’s some very progressive licensees, and there’s some very reductive licensees.

Peita Diamantidis
And look, I think, you know, what’s, what’s happened with our industry, and it happens with any but particularly in financial services, where legacy of things holds us back, you know, it can be a legacy of, you know, a system within a product provider that can hold them back or a legacy of a process like this legacy word is, is personally one of my most hated words, because it just holds us back, doesn’t it? And so, I think over time, particularly with the transition of the number of advisors, where everybody’s going up, my hope for everybody out there is that the licensees will start to adjust a bit more to tech so that it’ll be sure I get that they’ve got to assess it. But I think particularly, you know, a tool like this. It’s a particularly singular focus, if you don’t I mean, so they’re not having to assess lots of things. No, you know, it’s doing a particular job.

Dr. Paul Moran
It’s not giving advice. No, you know, it’s just capturing the data and we capture the data, very materially better than the paper based back fine. In a much more compliant manner. We have an audit log, for example, that’s built in so every interaction, every piece of data is added at the end and edited, amended or deleted is recorded. And we’ve a perpetual audit log of everything that’s happened. So compliance teams look at that and go, that’s pretty good. We know who to did we know who did a risk profile, we know who did the scope questions and that sort of stuff. So that’s, that’s pretty good to do. But, but also legacy has another element, which is, which is some of the original software is very, very closed. There’s very ring fenced. Yeah, and you can’t get in or out of it. It’s very difficult, you know, and we pick on the obvious one, we always pick on next planet, the obvious one, and we integrate with x plan, but it’s a challenge. Sure, it’s a challenge, because for example, x plan, don’t have an open API architectural, they have a closed API architecture. And their API’s don’t map to their own sites. So we have to remap every single site that uses x plan, which we do, but but that, that, as a dominant player, it’s hard to get stuff out of there, we’ve designed our system to have data be able to put anywhere, right so you can you can have access whenever you wanted to get at the site, it’s not locked into something,

Peita Diamantidis
something I feel like we probably need to cover given the headlines that have been going on with telecom hack that when that occurred, I feel like I now need to with everything, we all do actually get far more aware of this anyway. But talk to me about cybersecurity told me about how that works from both the clients perspective and the advisors proceeding. So

Dr. Paul Moran
from the very start, we have what we call two factor verification, as well as two factor authentication. Okay, so clients and all users, that’s that’s, that’s advisors, and our support staff, as well as in clients verified themselves with a with a verifying their email and a mobile phone number with SMS code as a side point, and every time they log in, they log in with a two factor authentication, as you would normally expect to separately that we, our host, our cloud has just AWS, Amazon, we feel that they are the most secure of the cloud hosting services. And we have a number of different different buckets was hauling data in different buckets. So that would technically mean you would have to have an encryption in in at least two buckets simultaneously in Amazon, to be able to map the client information with with the other information and put it together. So it would be pretty, it would be pretty difficult that everything’s encrypted, encrypted. And we double encrypt sensitive information like TF ns, and SR ends and hints and CRMs and capital encryption require specific pin to access them. So we think we think we’re pretty secure. Okay, good. But I’m not gonna head on heart. Right. These days. But but but you know, we’ve done everything we possibly can to focus on security. I think

Peita Diamantidis
this is one of those things that we’re all going to need to get used to it’s layers of protection, isn’t it? There isn’t just a lock? Protected? Yeah, it’s layers of it. What are the multiple things you can do?

Dr. Paul Moran
Two factor authentication, for example, or some clients who just hate that? Yeah. So at a client level, we have an ability for a clock for an advisor to turn off two factor authentication for a specific client, if they have a lot of trouble with it. But the administrator of the practices, anybody could turn off two factor authentication for the advisors and the clients across the board.

Peita Diamantidis
And look, I think, given what’s just happened, and given the impact we’ve seen, I think that’s a conversation that you could nudge a client and just say, this is for your benefit, like this is protecting you. And we all just need to get a bit more used to that don’t wait, like it’s, this is this is a good thing. I know it’s a bit you know, it’s it’s a little hinderance. But it truly is a little one, once you set up a reanalysis

Dr. Paul Moran
and security as we have the secure document vault built in. So we’ve tried to avoid where possible, emailing information backwards and forwards. So the document bulk was, again, the first thing we put into it, so the clients can log in and update add documents like driver’s licenses or statements, trust deeds. Advisors can load in advice documents, which the clients can have access to, if they want to. Even though a signature process, you know, with something like something like a helper like DocuSign, or Adobe sign, you when when you send a document that way, you send the document as a PDF, right, which kind of defeats the purpose of all security goes around that. So in our E signature process, which is our own own one, we send the link with the client logs into to a website to access a site a site there, rather than emailing backwards and forwards just little things like that.

Peita Diamantidis
So that’s something that probably people might not have expected when they’re sort of looking at the tool is it’s it’s, it’s really not It’s not like oh, this will you know, replace Survey Monkey for you rich profile psychotics thought this is a portal, even if it’s portal for a specific thing like it but it’s still got portal characteristics. So so that’s that’s an another sort of unknown benefit I have to admit I wasn’t as aware of until I did that digging was oh, okay, this is actually a portal, this could be something that’s your, you know, play. It’s the little place that’s the hub between you and your client. And

Dr. Paul Moran
we’ll talk later about where we’re going with that’s where we’re going with the portal so we’ll eventually get the other bank federal coming in first half a second second next year. So all the bank feeds data feeds will come in so it will become a will become a real hub for clients to look at but you know, something like a Survey Monkey which I totally get it, you know, committed foresight that but it’s still It’s still an equivalent of paper based form. Yeah, it’s a little bit of formatting in it. But but it’s done once and finished. Yeah, we’re trying to move away from that to the idea that as client’s information becomes available to you over sometimes a couple of years, well, that’s

Peita Diamantidis
that’s actually something I wanted to talk about. Because as somebody who’s you know, been in and out of a lot of CRM, so the visit, like looked at a lot of this stuff, the single thing that’s the hardest to achieve is time series of data. Right? So and I know I’m putting you on the spot here, so apologize. But how are you guys placed for that in terms of that seeing the picture over time, given that it’s, if you can use it for review, does that then give you the opportunity to sort of give a client a picture of something that’s over time and how they’ve improved, for example,

Dr. Paul Moran
so not not as yet, but still where we’re going, that the issue we have? Like, we’re well aware of time series data. And well, we’re using a historical time series as well as future time series. And one of the weaknesses of most modeling software, it’s always future looking. Yeah, it doesn’t incorporate that we’re looking so we’re building that we’re building that out. But, but we do take a we do take a snapshot, what we call a snapshot every time advice is given the clients esign the data at that point in time. And so we take a picture, we take a PDF of that or that point in time, and we store it with a coordinate so that so that it can be referred to in the SOA ROA if they still exist in a couple of years time. But But that means that we you know, you can see the the fact find completed today versus effect by quite a year ago. So there’s no graphical version of that taking a shot, you can at least have the data changes in that period of time.

Peita Diamantidis
Okay. Yeah, that’s, that’s perfect. I mean, and I knew I was being cheeky, asking, because it’s just it’s the, it’s the unicorn information, right?

Dr. Paul Moran
Well, that unicorn, we’re chasing that unicorn right now.

Peita Diamantidis
Perfect. Now talk to me about there’s going to be some practices that you’ll find just really take to this and others that have struggled, who does it really work for who who find it a bit tough.

Dr. Paul Moran
It works, it works well, for clients, for advisors, who are happy to sit down with the clients and start this process. Right? Okay, so they got through that. Now, their typical workflow is the pre mini questionnaire, we call it pre mini questionnaire on mini fac fine, because beforehand, that’s all done. That’s all complete on phone, tablet, or PC, takes about five to seven minutes, it’s pretty easy. The document boss starts there. So you can use your phone, take photographs of things, and later straight in. But it gives enough information for the advisor to start some basic modeling if they wanted to. Okay, that’s not the fact find. So, you know, we asked him a super review got nothing about the Super, you know, what’s your mortgage, nothing about the mortgage. So so when we go to the fact find, it’s another level of information and the expectation, we’ve got some practices who, who thinks they’re just gonna be able to send it out and have it completed. And that’s, that is the equivalent of saying, I’m a 40 page fine in the mouse I filled in and trying to finish, it just doesn’t happen. Now just doesn’t happen no matter what age you are. So we’re just think in the meeting with the client, the ones who do best sit down with them. And in in the last 10, or 15 minutes of the meeting, open the factfinder, which is already there, just open it and just start filling in the first few screens. And the clients get an array orientated to it, when we send when they released the fact find it’s a workflow that goes to the client in in an email, there’s a video embedded in that, and a link that takes them to the to the fact find, because what the client says on their screen is exactly what the advice is, isn’t their screen. So when you guys are starting to get information, they’re identical screens, I can see exactly the same thing. So it doesn’t work as well, when advisors think this should be just an automatic thing. The other one I want a hands off, you know where I just I don’t want to touch the client to literally to sign up and then is the SOA. And that doesn’t work for that. Because that’s not what we’re after.

Peita Diamantidis
Well, then I looked to be frank, I’ve I’ve never had somebody able to do that, because they don’t have that sort of a information on hand. But also be they don’t think in that sort of detail. Like the questions we’re asking are often things that they’ve never had to actually cogitate on. Right.

Dr. Paul Moran
Even even the scope right the scoping tool, what we say is initially we put the scoping questions into the mini factfinder. But we understand that’s what the clients think they want to talk about. That’s not the scope. Scope can only be determined when you’ve had a discussion with the client at the end of the fact find to work at what you’ve been through everything. We talked about estate planning and talk about insurances, you’ve talked about the debt, you’ve talked about the superannuation, their assets and cash flow, then you can work out what’s going to be in the scope and you finalize it at that point you get Can you confirm it with the client? So I think it’s it’s, it’s when when you take the time to get the information, and I think it’s, it’s, you know, I often liken it to when you go to a doctor, you know, if you go to see a doctor and and they basically say fill in this form, and give it to me that you know, when you get it just goes into a file doesn’t go anywhere. Yeah, but someone who actually asks all the questions, you feel much more comfortable, you feel a lot more trusting of that of that person. You feel a lot more comfortable with it with the advice they’re gonna give you. Yeah, so I think it is an interactive thing. It’s when it works best.

Peita Diamantidis
And is it the sort of thing that a client could get partway through stop, go away? You You know, we did have a few days and they didn’t come back. So it is something that they it’s not like they’ve got a seat until they finish.

Dr. Paul Moran
It’s a portal that just saves it auto saves every screen every screen. So they can stop whenever they want start whenever they want. We track the progress, we track on our main dashboard. Level of completion, they’ll basins last login last login day. So you can see if someone’s stalled somewhere you can see where they’re at. But it’s it is totally designed to be able to go in and out off as often if you want to.

Peita Diamantidis
Yeah, and I’m betting that you know, the, if you really got organized then you could even have, you know, an admin team member sort of watching for those stalled ones. And either giving them a quick bars or dropping them an email something just to give them a nudge, go, Oh, do you need some help? Do you like using it that way to keep the flow happening? You know, without sort of pushing too hard? I think because everybody gets busy, we get distracted.

Dr. Paul Moran
And we are building out some automated emails that will go out to clients as refreshes. So if it’s been five days, since you’ve last logged in, will there be an email going out to just say, hey, you know, it’s been a few days, trying to catch up with back on the door, or you want to click this button to contact your advisor to help advisor click buttons all the way through for help. Okay, if you need to,

Peita Diamantidis
yeah, because I do think we did an assessment was a couple of months ago, and it caused us to go down a path with some new tech and and I worked out that more than half of all the tasks that all the team was set were a follow up client on. And, and I was okay, this is, I mean, we should be following up. I don’t have an issue with that. But clearly, there’s a nudge problem here, you know, like this, this problem with us having to manually do that. And so the more that something can do that for us, at least to a point, you know, where, okay, I’m just gonna call them this has got, you know, do you want to have a time, let’s just do it, you know, let’s just finish this off. So,

Dr. Paul Moran
and sometimes it’s I mean, we identified this compulsory fields or through the fact find, right, and it’s a sequential fact, find databases, that type of work, right, top to bottom. Yeah, but we only inflation cascades down the line. So you literally almost, but we know there’s some information, for example, for example, what’s the who’s the beneficial owner for trust? Right, we kind of know, most clients go what the Huzi, what, even though it’s compulsory, we’ve built this little thing called a missing link, which means you can click a little button there to say, I’ll come back to this later on, it doesn’t stop you from going through, and you keep working way through and builds a little to do list off to the side that that you’re gonna come back to before the fact points finished. So we’re trying to minimize, I mean, we’re about to launch a new, big, big kind of look, which will remove about 40% of clicks from the fact find, now just making it a lot more intuitive to work through. Like any software, it goes, it develops itself, you know, it goes off on a tangent. And even though you gotta stop saying, Oh, it’s, it was good, you know, but we’ve done all this other stuff now. And it’s, it’s probably 50%, bigger than it was two years ago. So maybe we need to refresh to how that looks. And so we’ve been through that project. Now, we’re about to launch that next couple of weeks.

Peita Diamantidis
And I think it’s something that probably in finance, generally, you know, not just financial advice, we don’t acknowledge enough that the way we think and what is logical to us, is almost guaranteed to not be what it is. for the consumer. I remember, I’ve got a good friend of mine. And they’re actually in marketing. They’re very visual. And I looked at their phone, and they’ve got their apps on their phone sorted by color. So when they scroll, it’s all the green apps on this page, and are it like, and like, to me, that is absolute insanity. But to them, it’s the it’s the most intuitive and obvious thing you’d ever do, you know. And so I think that’s the other challenge we have with these tools until we get clients to start using them as we realize, oh, yeah, we shouldn’t have asked that then like, to us that seems obvious is the next thing. But it’s not to them.

Dr. Paul Moran
No, but there’s, there’s a lot of questions we do ask that we think are asked to So little things like, like I use an example I’ve got a client has been a client for over 20 years. And they’ve always talked about their son, their sons 51 years old, right? They’ve always talked about their son, their son, Andrew, right. And so Andrew, bless Andrew, that firewall. So we’ve gone through and we’ve done state planning, we’ve done all sorts of stuff. And then in our fact find we asked the question, okay, put a child in Andrew, whose child is it? Okay, that Fox is a Cloner or both. And they tick client, not partner. I so but you haven’t? No, no, this is my son, not her son. Wow. 20 years later, right? Yeah. It was not a question that gets asked. No, we can ask it here because it’s a simple checkbox to answer. So we’re getting to sort of that level of what I call intimate dialogue. And at every section, every line of the fact find every section has a little micro note section built in. So if you ensure independence, and you want to make some notes, there’s a file on that system. In there built in for joining dependents, if you’re looking for entities, it’s a little mini micro note. For for children dependents, that’s where you’d put in stuff that wouldn’t wouldn’t normally put in anywhere else. It’ll you know what the kids got a disability and is going to be extra help or they hate the entity. It doesn’t look out the SMSF you’d put that stuff into the micro note section.

Peita Diamantidis
And the micro notes are also visible by the client or just by the adviser,

Dr. Paul Moran
the adviser. The client has a section on the advisor has a section so Okay, advisor can see the client notes client, Kathy, the advisor notes.

Peita Diamantidis
Okay, nice. And, and I liked that flow. I do think, look, file notes are the bane of everybody. They’re absolutely necessary and to be frank, fundamental even just for handover internally right. So let’s, but you’re right, a stream of consciousness in a note is nowhere near as valuable there’s something right next to the thing it’s talking about

Dr. Paul Moran
Correct, correct and it’s updatable. So therefore, it’s always current, you know, and so we have a, we have a finite system built into I find it’s a very good finite system, but we totally get everyone’s also using financial planning software and, and, and a CRM, and there’s probably finance in there as well. But we had enough clients who weren’t using any of those, their own finance system in here, unfortunately, explained don’t offer an API for file notes work. So to do so we’re working on integration with file notes for them, but not not with x plan at this point. So and look,

Peita Diamantidis
I think there’s always ways to adjust for that, you know, so it’s, it depends. If that particular feature gets value for somebody, then they find a workaround, they find a way to to handle that, you know, I think we’ve, I think the full integration stuff is awesome. But it, you’ve got, I call it human API, if it requires just a little bit of a save as a PDF and put in the, you know, record or whatever, then if it still makes it easier for you and makes it a better result. Well, then, so be it. You know, that’s okay. Let’s since we were talking about integration, let’s dive into that. And then we’ll come back to the sort of client experience so I could I was so excited on the website. When I saw that your integrate with Zapier, how did that process go?

Dr. Paul Moran
Well, it’s just it’s early days for us. We’ve got about six six things that we’ve we enter into interact with on Zapier. It’s it just gives us the flexibility put some little little functionality into it. So So zapping into say outlook, for example. So so so it just means that we were trying to you know, ideally want a good properly proper integration built. Sure. So Zapier is a short term fix for for little bits of information that go across from point A to point B. But we’re registered with Zapier. It’s that’s the first process as you know, and so therefore, we can keep it up to date. He never the first few few out there. Yeah, but we do we do live with Zapier, but it’s not it’s not our primary source of integration. Yeah, so we

Peita Diamantidis
Yeah, and I think for a listener that doesn’t know what that is. Zapier is just one of many, but it’s a tool that really connects anything to anything, anything that’s on the list, it’ll connect, and but we always think it’s data, right? We always focus on the data connection, but some of the best things we have in those connections is a trigger, something happens in a causes something else to happen in B, you know, sometimes just as simple as that can be enough to just save a bit of time, you know? So, so yeah, I was excited to say that only because to me, it demonstrated a willingness to want to integrate, you know, like it’s, yeah, we get it, you know, we can’t do it for everything. We’ll do it for the big ones that you’ve mentioned. So you mentioned work sorted, I’m assuming x plan. So you’ve gone through that plus process, the app. Fantastic. what else what else

Dr. Paul Moran
I’ve just finished. Integrate now, we’ll probably work on, we’ve been this new project to minimize the clicks has been a main focus with Elon for the last couple of months. Next, the next focus will be moving to a platform called react. React is a platform that when we started off, iPhone was this big, a lot bigger. A new platform gives us a lot more flexibility around around mobile phone, tablet, multi multi tool integrations. So that would be much better. And but that will be next couple of months coming up. Yeah. Yeah. And then we’ll move on to stuff more integrations. We have an open AI. Well, it’s not it’s not published. But we have an open API architecture. Okay, we have about 5000 data points that we can integrate with if we need to. We’re probably worked with the ones who are have also have open API. So for example, midwinter might be coming up soon, we will work with Void. We’re working with voyant pretty closely at the moment, we’re talking to them in the US pretty regularly. Yeah. So boy, it will be our next and next integration. Why it’s great software, but it’s a bit clumsy to enter the data. Just perfect. Perfect for us. Yes. Delicately entered automatically becomes a really, really good, good, useful tool. Yeah, absolutely. And so probably probably the mid winter after that. And then we’ll see where we go after that. Yeah.

Peita Diamantidis
And look, I think it’s something that I think lots of users just don’t ever realize. But the more they’d simply let people like yourself or you know, other tools know what would be helpful, the more you can get a sense of what should be on your development path. I think people sort of stay a bit quiet. And it’s like, no, no, if you think or something, it doesn’t mean you saying oh, it’s frustrating that I don’t have it, you can just say, gee, you know, we do this thing a lot. If there was a connection, it’d be great. And you can just add it to the list. You know, it can go on the you’ll get to when you get to it.

Dr. Paul Moran
Yeah, I mean, we Deb’s pretty quick. So we know, we’re able to upgrade and add new things pretty quickly. What we don’t want to do is build a customizable service, right? for very good reason. Because customization is the enemy of integrations Right, right. Hence, hence x plan has a problem. So So yeah, so we want to we have a configurable service rather than customizable service. There are a couple of customizations on it. The scope of advice questions can be custom So, but they’re hard coded, okay. And the risk profile that we use, we have a built in risk profile tool. But if you want to use your own one, then we can hard code that in as well. Yeah, but everything else is configurable. And we meant what everybody does, you can turn on or off sections, template, those. So if you’ve got a template, say, say you’re a risk specialist and just do risk, then you probably turn off the risk profile tool, you might turn off expenses, you might turn off entities, you might just leave on the sections that you want to turn on and so on advisors, start off with a very small fact find yet to the low stuff off, and then they gradually turn stuff back on, to encourage clients to use a bit more depends on the interaction we have with a client.

Peita Diamantidis
Right? And what that experience were how they want to run that. Yeah, okay, that makes a lot of sense. And I think that’s, that’s helpful, because it’s not this here is this 427 page thing, it’s down to what you think works for the way you’re running your experience, you know,

Dr. Paul Moran
things factfinder can be completed in 15 minutes or 20 minutes if you if you want to, if it’s simple, yeah, it’s not simple. It can take a couple of hours or even a couple of days when you get the information together. But but but it’s it just it’s designed to be as flexible as possible for the user. So we’ve got some some users who, who primarily use them, in effect, find, then use then use the fact find themselves to store information, they’ve got users who, who exclusively send the fact one of the clients and get them to fill everything in and come back to me when you’re finished. Others use a hybrid, some don’t use it at all for that for the clients, they just use it in house to store their information. So it’s okay, we know that all people are all different ways. What we don’t want to do is, is get in the path. Because to a certain extent, our profession is hamstrung a bit. Because everyone wants to do it their way. Yeah, you know, I mean, I’m going about standards for a long time. But you know, when everyone wants to do everything they want, and we’re going to be hamstrung with technology, you know, it’s, you’ve got to be able to say, You know what, that’s pretty good. I can see where they’ve gone there. And right, you know, I’ll modify, I’ll modify myself a little bit to each

Peita Diamantidis
thing. And also, well, what else did what I do is and that, you know, an addendum to that, that’ll get me the result I want, you know, so I agree, I do think it’s interesting. It is hard because personalization, we feel like, is what makes it unique to us where in truth, it’s the experience itself that is unique. And the way that you intro it the way you were there, like what happens after what happens below, you know, all those sort of things. And even the way the language you use to describe it, and the positioning, all of that is what’s unique, is current

Dr. Paul Moran
clients can’t see personalization. Never know, they don’t know, point of comparison. No, you know, so we talk about all the time, but clients have no point of comparison between personal a and personalization B, it just doesn’t exist. So we’re trying, we’re trying to what we’ve just found is I say ifec finds a consensus software tool, because so many people have given us feedback over the years that we’ve modified, amended or updated, added in, based on feedback from users that it becomes really a consensus tool. And if you want something that’s very different, well, you have to do something else. But yeah, but your choices are limited. There’s only a few of us around doing a real interactive, sort of SaaS based tool, that it’s not just like a, you know, like a Survey Monkey or cognitive form, that’s just a one off thing. You can’t go back to that and fill it in, you know, it’s hard to go back and fill in later on, since he filled in or don’t fill in, you know, yeah. So, ya know, if I put up, you know, my backgrounds, behavioral finance, and I’ve put, there’s some good behavioral finance tools in there. So the goals tool is behaviorally based. Okay, you know, as far as being, you know, showing him sort of multi goals or showing a goals menu, rather than saying, what are your goals for class? I don’t know, we show them. Here’s here are the 16 primary goal areas. So including health, you know, what do you mean by health? Well, do you need dental work done or having operation coming up? Oh, yeah, I am, it’s going to cost me 20 grand for dental work. Okay, great. Let’s set a goal to future expense. So, so we’re just trying to capture as much as we can. So the clients have a sense that I really know them, you know, the old client rule, we’ve kind of forgotten a bit, you know, it’s, but it’s really, really important, then the clients have to have a sense that we really are taking the time to get to know them as best as we possibly can. Yeah, and

Peita Diamantidis
I think one of the other things when you use something that gives you structure, right, so effect frontal it gives gives structure, is it frees you to dive deeper, that’s what I love about those things. So we can either basically I feel good, oh, that’s interesting. Why was blah, right? So it lets you focus as the advisor on the next level of depth, not having to go ah, I didn’t ask him about the mortgage repayment frequency, or is it people didn’t really like it? Yeah, I think it frees your brain out for the depth. And that’s where the real value is, you know, in terms of the interaction. So,

Dr. Paul Moran
you can also make some points, you know, like we, in our state planning section we ask, you know, when when was the will completed what year and then we ask, where is it located? Where is it physically located? Okay. Now, I would say, in my experience, at least half of people we’ll be building go. I don’t know. I’ll put a copy home. Not the copy. Where’s the original? Yeah. Okay, because the copy doesn’t copy doesn’t work in the way it was originally? I don’t know. Or it’s with? Oh, I don’t know. You know? Yeah. Cuz it was done 10 years ago, 12 years ago. So it makes a point. Yeah, that that’s what we’re here to talk about that I’m not going to do the will. But unless you speak to me, no one would have spoken to me about that. Yeah. So you know, that’s, that’s the role that we play, you know,

Peita Diamantidis
and it is, I mean, things fall apart in the minutia. Don’t they are in the administration? You know, it’s like, yeah, we’ve got one. Oh, I don’t know where that is. That Correct. Like, there’s not much point. Yeah, that’s a really interesting point, actually. So in terms of your current users, what are the ninja users doing? Like? Has anybody done something you’re like, wow, I didn’t expect you use it that way. Like, is there anything like that, that you’re seeing in terms of the experience to users?

Dr. Paul Moran
I mean, certainly, certainly, the experience users who are users who liked to have clients modeled before they see them, right. So they’re taking the data from any fact fine putting into some basic modeling, whether it’s x tools plus or voyant, or whatever they’re using, and creating some basic model. So when the clients come in, they read there on the screen. So they’re able to say, Okay, here’s what you told me. Here’s where you’re going to finish up, here’s the shortfalls we need to talk about. Okay, you know, and interesting. So it helps to go through the scope. And

Peita Diamantidis
so that sort of that on the path you’re on, this is where you’re at. Yeah, you know, and then yeah, okay, so it’s almost a baseline

Dr. Paul Moran
gap analysis, because when you’re in the financial planning process, although there’s seven steps, now, scope starts, it’s starting to scope. But where are you now you know, where you want to be? What are you doing about it? We’ve got those three piece of information. And so with those three pieces of information, we can create a basic model. Yep. It says, here’s where you’re at, you know, yeah, others are using, you know, we have a review process built in. So we’re going to review workflow built in. So you can, for every client, you can put a review, review, review date, review frequency, and then how many days you send out, they get a link to log into the fact finder update the fact finding and get it done. Account, people use NET pretty well, I know that sometimes is a little bit conflicted with other workflows around reviews. Right? All right, because sometimes I’m going to review workflow works differently, but but we have a, we have a white label client login link for every practice. So they can take that and embed that into their other workflow. So when they get when the review comes up, hey, click on the link and go into effect. I do that yeah. Okay. Okay. So we probably have others, our fiat system, there’s little advisors stated to us, all your recordings have made it. And so our file notes can accept audio recordings, as an attachment. So it’s pretty, pretty useful. salutely? Yeah. So I think that’s, you know, that’s some of the real tips that people are using, but the perfect, but it’s gone, it’s gone. Well,

Peita Diamantidis
how about? So you talked about the client interface changing and updating? What prompted that was that just was that actual client feedback, or was that advisor feedback,

Dr. Paul Moran
both I mean, it was, it’s the same, it’s the same upgrade. So there’s the MO, the client and advisor see exactly the same thing. But we knew we knew it’d become a little bit clunky to move from, you know, say adding in a child, when you add the child click, say, to go back to add another child, click the button to get another child go through the process again. So we figured we can take those three buttons with one button, this is add another child, you know, So little things like that. We also, we know in every section, there’s compulsory and optional information. And we kind of we kind of embedded that optional, compulsory throughout the page. So we’ve done now is take all the compulsory questions, there’s two or three key compulsory questions at the top. Okay, and then say, Tell me more. Yeah, and so the clients can see there’s less information has to be filled in, rather than trying to think they’ve got to fill it all in which one to filled in, but, but they can get through it quicker.

Peita Diamantidis
And I do think I mean, that’s a behavioral thing, too. You know, nothing frustrates me more than when we get these, you know, maybe it’s a research questionnaire or whatever, I’ll only take you a few minutes. And then as you go through, there’s 427 questions, and you’re not do I have to do all this? Is there not some a shorter version, I was willing to spend the time but you know, so to make that clear, I think is really important, because at least you’ll get that, you know, at least the client can get that far.

Dr. Paul Moran
It’s just it’s enough information, you know, things like we need, who’s it with how much is what was the material? What’s the interest rate? But what’s the interest frequency? All these other questions? Like, they’re kind of nice to know. Yeah, but not need to know. So we’re just think that’ll that’ll drop. A lot of what we’re trying to do is constantly remove barriers to completion, the friction, you know, trying to remove the friction as much as we can, and whether it’s a constant process of doing that. And there’s lots of little things that we do that they constantly make that make the video because it is it is a big document. There’s a lot to complete an effect in effect fine. Yeah, we get some dealer groups of countries who will affect fines can only 55 pages long. Yeah. Okay. Well, that’s that’s pretty conditional. So if you say no, the rest stops. So we move to the next question. Now it’s that yeah, that’s how it gets to it. So we’re gonna we’re gonna ask you to find pages where the questions but not not haven’t had it look like it’s 15 pages. And

Peita Diamantidis
yeah, definitely. Yeah. I mean, that’s horrible for us to contemplate little like Oh my goodness. And so in terms of in terms of looking forward, you know, you mentioned a few things you’ve got on the develop person, is there anything else that’s maybe a rule? I’d love to? Like? Is it one of those things out there that, I’d love to get to the point where we can do this, or

Dr. Paul Moran
if I, you know, just put you on your moped, but but we are, we are building, probably in, in the second half of next year, we want to build out a calculator functionality that will auto populate. So we want to be able to get to a gap analysis, once you’re finished the fact that you automatically have a gap analysis done. Yeah. You know, so we know what it looks like. Yeah, yeah, we know, if we look at the steps, we’re just mindful of, you know, we’re a bit careful, we don’t want to step on too many toes, you know, we, you know, we know that our software sits under the stack. Yep, you know, it’s a foundation piece of the stack. And so we want to be integrated, we don’t want to, we don’t want to sort of take all the other functions from other software. So we just wanted to come the best fit for that weekend. But with what we can do with the fact finders, we know we’ve got Where are you now where you want to get to? And what are you doing about it? That is the gap analysis, right? We’ve got the goal setting, we’ve got the scope of it, the gap analysis, what you want to do past there as an advisor, you further modeling go from there.

Peita Diamantidis
And the thing is, I mean, it’s, it’s, I find it really interesting, actually, in terms of modeling my background, which may not have shared actually on the podcast it is, is I studied actuarial studies, and I worked in investment banking, and so you know, Excel macro unit, like we were just modeling up the wazoo, right. And when I reflect on what we end up trying to do with clients, I don’t think we use back of the envelope, sort of calculators enough, like I just like, there’s that, hey, that’s your super balance. And that’s the amount going into your super right now that that’s going to be about this amount. And that’s about two thirds of what your average Australian needs

Dr. Paul Moran
to get to that will be filling in the numbers as we go. So in the insurance data analysis, for example, in which we call a goal insurance goals, will be pre populating numbers. So you’ll see what the Dollar values are for the different factors that you want to incorporate. And so that’s what we want to get to, is that that piece it is, it is back of the envelope stuff, but it’s yeah, it’s just that we can get too complicated, you know, we’re going to be focused on things like stochastic analysis, we all get excited about that. But in reality, and advisors shouldn’t need stochastic analysis because I was torn apart one day, he said to me, you know, what, if we were taken from Melbourne, and Sydney, and we did didn’t do anything, we’d probably finish up in Hong Kong. Because what I’m doing is Kotler the plan is going to do his coffee, making little adjustments to make sure it gets on track. Yeah, so stochastic analysis assumes that you don’t ever touch it, you get what you get, and here’s the range you can get. But if I’m making a little adjustments by adjusting as I go, Yeah, I’m gonna get closer to where I want to get to. Yeah. So it’s less important than make that really whiz bang functionality, as opposed to a back of the envelope stuff. That’s all when he gets to here, and you’re not going to get there. So we need to make some changes.

Peita Diamantidis
Well, and I remember, there was a guy I worked with, back in my investment banking days who, who used to say the word assumptions, US assumptions. And the reason he did was because you have one assumption, okay, your likelihood of getting it right is not bad. But we all know we have multiple 3040 Like it’s the amount of num when we do those numbers, the amount of assumptions and we’re layering them on top of each other. So actually, we’re making we’re implying certainty, but in fact, we’re delivering less certain the more assumptions we use, and that’s the thing I think is that always worries me about modeling is I think, actually a back of the envelope that gives them a feel I vaguely on the right track and let’s just guardrails, love guardrails, you know, like, here’s some guardrails, if we can try and keep it within this, and this yay, you know, because, you know, you only, you know, particularly with compounding, you only need to tweak something one way or the other. And the numbers are ludicrous. You know, and the timeframes we’re talking are long, you know, we’re not talking next year.

Dr. Paul Moran
And also also the answer to everything is, it depends, right, that’s the answer to everything. So, so what advisors have to do is understand they’ve got a series of levers they can pull, and what are the consequences of pulling those levers? Yeah, right. Am I gonna get closer or further away if we want to get to? Yeah. Okay. That’s what it comes down to. That’s the that’s the art of financial planning. Yeah, yeah. That’s what are we trying to make it scientific and scientific to a degree, but we, but it is the this about understanding that okay, well, you know, what you, you’ve, you’ve got a big mortgage, and really to get the mortgage down to this level is really important not to get it gone. And to get down this level. That’s what we’ll focus on first Wednesday, we’ll start to focus on this over here. Yeah, you know,

Peita Diamantidis
yeah. Absolutely. So is there anything? Have we missed anything? I feel like we’ve covered lots of areas he was in the elite, any elements we’ve missed? I mean,

Dr. Paul Moran
from a pricing point of view, yep. We’ve priced I find at the very low end when we’re not. We think it’s, I mean, there’s others who argue of course, but we think is the best digital factfinder Yeah, it’s the most comprehensive it’s the most user friendly, it’s integrated with other software, but we clearly from day one, understand understood. It sits as a is the foundation of the tech stack. It’s not the tech stack. Yeah, so we’re not trying to price it. So we charge only advisors, only people who pay a bit one on the on the advisor register or support staff don’t pay it, we include external paraplanners nephews, external peripherals, like you had free access to it, there’s no charge on a per client basis. So you have unlimited clients. And the cost is for the full integration versions are under 170 bucks a month for for unlimited use for advisors. So that’s what the full integration division, the non integration version is cheaper than that. So yeah, we’re not, we’re not at that higher level of costs, on purpose, because I’m a practitioner, and I know how much software costs. So, you know, we’ve we’ve tried to factor in,

Peita Diamantidis
and I think, you know, there is an accessibility issue with, with technology generally, inside our industry versus outside, you know, and there’s all these great tools outside the industry, that about whether it’s marketing, or all these other things, I can give it a whirl, you know, like, it’s that, I’m just gonna give it a whirl for a while. But when we, when the pricing becomes really high, you can’t even give it a whirl. It’s an all in thing, you know, and I, I just don’t think that’s the way a lot of tech is gonna work in the future, I just think we’re going to, because something will be perfect, but we’ve got to try it first, you know, and just give it a bit of a, you know, a bit of a trial start, oh, wow, this is fantastic. Off we go. Whereas when it’s a lot, well, then you’re investing a lot of time and energy into that, too, you know, and it’s the cost is builds, doesn’t it like,

Dr. Paul Moran
and we’re gonna find a balance, because it is it is software that needs training. It’s like a lot of software that needs training. And when you’re charging virtually nothing, you can’t afford to train a lot. And our bread and butter is coming from one or two person practices. So they’re not, they’re not big buyers, we’re still gonna try and just design. Yeah, we still do training. But it’s just that balance is not between between two, the cost for us cost of you know how it all comes together. So we’re trying to we’re trying to find that find that point.

Peita Diamantidis
And I think the thing that we probably need to acknowledge in the advice industry look like, you know, talk a decade or more ago, and, and I think we probably expected something to get delivered to us. And it would be this wonderful machine and, and I just turn up and plug it in and off we go. Whereas these days, to me, the single most powerful thing you can do before engaging with a provider for whatever ticket is, is just know what your process is, like, really deeply understand your process and what you want your experience to be. Because then even in training, you can ask very specific questions like it’s, it lets you get from zero to 100 really quickly. Whereas I find people struggle to get to onboard when they don’t really know their own process already. Well enough,

Dr. Paul Moran
I think, I think although they need to be a bit flexible with that, they need to say okay, well, this software is great. But it doesn’t, you know, I find it frustrating people say it doesn’t match my my workflow. Exactly, right. No, there is nothing out there that matches your workflow. Exactly. So your workflow, just stop looking at what you’ve got. Yeah. But if you’re happy to sort of tweak a little bit, and so if you just tweak this little thing, you get this all this efficiency is always Yeah, activist comes out.

Peita Diamantidis
And particularly, I think, more and more well, now with everything that we use in the press in our business and look at its what, what does this mean, for the user experience being in a consumer? Great? And if that makes it a little harder on us, but a lot better for them? I mean, you’re like, it’s like, that’s how it should work. You know, and, and so, so and if it means we do, you know, be before a now because well, actually, that just makes makes it all smoother, and it’s easier for them. Yeah, you know, let’s do it early

Dr. Paul Moran
on, we get looked at the document vault is really what the clients one of the things that clients live, we’ve got clients who are keen to travel, have put the travel documents in there put the right travel insurance documents in because they know they can access it anywhere in the world. So it’s Yeah, So little things like that. There’s a little update within within content there too. But just about that value add but yeah, there it is, you know, it’s just stuff like that.

Peita Diamantidis
Absolutely. Absolutely. All righty, well, alright, advice explorers. If you’d like to find out more about ifec Find, then the website link is going to be in the episode shownotes along with Paul’s LinkedIn details, so feel free to hit him up on LinkedIn. And ask all sorts of questions. And and, you know, see what, what you can find out what will work for you. Thank you so much for joining us, Paul. I’m really looking forward to seeing what other sort of client interactivity and other features you guys come up with in the future. So best of luck, really. Thank you for coming.

Thanks. So are you a current user of ifec? Find? Do you agree or sort of disagree without sort of discussion of the app or the concept even of digital factfinder? Please, please, please share any insights you have or your experience on the XY community platform. I’d love to hear your take. We’ve been looking into something like this for some time. So I’d love to get your feedback. And I’m sure all the listeners would love any further tips you have for advisors considering something like I affect fund terms of mine thoughts, I think there’s a, you know, a section of us who probably resist some of these tools, because we really worry about it, you know, outsourcing stuff to the client, you know, is that really the experience we want, which I really understand, you know, I think it can be easy. And just like Paul was saying, it can be easy just to shove it off to them and go Well, at least that makes me more efficient, not really considering what then the clients experiences. But I think if we go back to the beginning and realize, we are going to have to collect information from the client, right, that I mean, that’s necessary, and somewhat torturous, no matter which way you do it, then you know, a lot of this, I think, can be a wonderful hybrid experience, you know, so give them the maybe the opportunity to do that, you know, a mini fact font of the beginning, give you a bit of information, maybe then have a video personalized from each advisor. So it can just be one peer advisor in your team that talks them through how important you know, up to date and accurate information is maybe gives them a to do list of the sorts of things you’re going to need as they complete the fact find, and where to find that, you know, some people don’t even realize where they can find that information out. So maybe giving them some help. And some instructions, it could be a downloadable, or it could be on the video, and even set their expectations of the sort of time this will take, you know, oh, look, if you sit down, it’ll probably be about 15 minutes. But hey, if you do it over a couple of times, you know, two or three times you’ll get it all done. So really just set that expectation. And the best way to do that is to have you and your entire team, put your own information into these tools when you’re trying them out. Right. So that’s the way to get that feel, is really considered yourself, like a consumer get maybe your partner to do it or something so that you can almost watch them as they’re completing, understand where the barriers are and, and be pre emptive about how or proactive about the way that you address those. Now, you know, I mean, it sounds great that there’s constantly if they’re struggling, hey, they can reach out to the advisor, or they can flag it, that’s fantastic. But to be honest, this whole thing is all about positioning, Top and Tail these experiences, whether it’s with video, whether it’s with a follow up, email, a follow up phone call from the team, whatever you do, you know, we’ve got to help the clients understand that the numbers are just data, what we’re doing is just getting some data. So that you know, and doing that beforehand means we can spend time in the meeting meeting really digging into their hopes for the future, what drives them, what you know, what they looking forward to what they’re fearful of, you know, the real juicy stuff, right? So what we’re doing is separating those two things, and using the numbers just as a sort of bouncing off point for that conversation. And you know, something else we can get in the habit of doing is thanking them for the time to do that. Thank you so much for doing that. That’s fantastic. Right. So this is all about positioning, and interjecting your energy and your approach to this experience into a tool. Like say I effect find. They’re all just tools, right? These apps are just tools, the experience all comes down to the way we choose to implement them. And that’s where we need to give it some great thought now walked curiosity corner times. So as we all know, only one skill, you need to become a biotic advisor. And that’s avid curiosity. Right? Always wondering, what could do that? Why does it do that? Right? So today, we’re actually going to challenge the way or the why we use spreadsheets. So today’s curiosity corner app that caught my eye is air table, you can find it at Air table.com. They tag logins is connect everything achieve anything, right? Challenge. So air table is actually a sort of low or no code, tool or platform for building collaborative apps for your team. It could customize a workflow help you collaborate on a particular topic or issue. And it’s all with a really easy to use and intuitive, intuitive interface. So for example, you might currently use a spreadsheet, say, for your client work pipeline, or maybe your new business pipeline or Lead Pipeline, spreadsheets, you know, seemingly great for this type of thing. And it seems natural. They’ve got rows and columns of data, you know that you can then use formulas to calculate values, it’s easy to follow, you know, and scroll your eye down. And to be frank, given the financial nature of the work we do, then spreadsheets often feel really intuitive to us. So well of course, I put that in a spreadsheet. However, the thing that spreadsheets are not is a database. You see a relational database doesn’t just store data, right? It’s not just fields it has data data, it stores relationships between that data linking for example, all the clients that are certain stage in your process, or all the clients looked after by a specific Pick advisor, you can then use those relationships to answer any operational questions you have. Storing sort of related data together in a single spreadsheet can get really unwieldly. And it can actually invite errors. When you try to sort it and compare it and things are hidden or they’re not hitting, it can become a bit of a disaster. But with a database, for example, you could easily reorganize the table to give a view for just one advisor, it doesn’t change the underlying data. It’s just a viewpoint that changes, you know, without modifying the database itself. And this is where air table gets really clever. They have grid views, they have form views, so you can just enter data easily. They even have calendar views. So you can actually see certain the certain entries due date on an actual calendar. So you might have your database about that pipeline. And then you use the calendar view to see the workload going at all, we’ve got three on that day and two on that day and four on that day, right. They also have a gallery view that represents your records as large cards. Now, if you’re using Trello, which is a bit similar in that respect, then but you might be finding, you’re sort of really stretching the limits of what’s possible there, then you might want to give a table a look, as a relational database. I’ve got loads of templates to get you started and heaps of videos and training. There’s all sorts of people that talk about using a table and are experts in it. And as if it couldn’t get any more awesome. It also integrates with Zapier, which we were talking about earlier in the episode, so you could have data added based on something that occurs in another app, and it could get added in that database. So this is one of those tools that’s incredibly powerful. And it can really bridge the divide between the sort of nerdy spreadsheet analysts in your team and I put myself in that sort of category. And those simply needing to reference data to do their jobs, where it’s really quite functional. I just need to understand what you know, this thing for this client or this thing for this stage or this thing for this process. So definitely check it out. If you do end up giving it a try, please post or post on social or DM me, what you come up with, as I’d love to hear what you end up using it for and you know how creative you got because that’s really what this comes down to to is it’s the creativity and the way you can look at things differently to take advantage of a tool like air table. Spreadsheets are a really great example of tools, you know, we’ve stretched beyond their intended use. So, you know, with such easy to use alternatives available these days. Honestly, you’re going to be stunned at how easy things can become. So get on it, folks, and just give something like this a whirl. Well, that’s all we’ve got for this week. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you’ll get your advice tech fix automatically sent to you each Friday. And if you’d like a speaker at your next event to brief your audience on the seven habits of bionic advisors, and hand over the secrets to tech powered human centric advice, then please reach out to me on LinkedIn at Peita M. D. That’s Peita MD. Otherwise, I look forward to turning up in your earbuds next week. And remember advice explores Stay curious.

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